Elite: Game talk

Thinder
14 May 2024, 1:50am
Glen van RossIt's very popular amongst the PvP fliers of our opposition; and the four large hardpoints makes a little more lethal than a Krait.

Hasn't been tested yet, but the speculation is that even a prismo Cutter wouldn't live long enough to bolt from a wing of Pee Mk II's, whereas it is extremely possible for a hauling prismo Cutter to hold up long enough to high-wake from 4-5 FdLs or Kraits.


I'm curious to see those Krait MK II fits...

That's ONLY providing you can use all your weapons at once without your 6A Power Distributor coming short on you.

You haven't been experimenting, I have, no speculation there and the informations I gave are perfectly relevant for this reason, for info I have spent my time gathering Materials and engineering first the Python MK II, then optimizing the Krait MK II.

I don't hold religion on what PvP flyers are saying especially if its untested speculation, between 6 and 7 A there is no need for photo finish, what matters to me is what I know and have seen with my own eyes.

It's all very well to have 4 X 3C Multi-cannon [Fixed] but it comes to a point where it's not even relevant if you can't get the target's shields down fast enough, and at this level the Krait MK II is better, as not only you don't see your main lasers cutting down but you also can keep boosting at the same time.

That's the difference between what a 6A and a 7A Power Distributor allows you to do, there's no way around this fact even for those who keep thinking they can beat the laws of physics.

It came to a point where I experimented with an engineered 7D Power Distributor because not only I gain weight but also it is enought to provide your lasers with enough power to take your target shields before using your cannons.

In a JOUST engagement I'd love to see one of those Python II lase their target for as long as a Krait MK II can with a proper fit, what good is a 3C Beam Laser if you can't use it without running out of power?

I have tested the Python MK II with all sort of Class 6, the Krait MK II with Class 6 and 7, everywhere there is an advantage to be otained I tested the combination, Weapon Focused, Engine Focused and at this level the KRAIT MK II come on top, no question about it, I doubt the same team designed the Python MK II.



So I'm cerain that those flying this ship will come to face this limitation sooner than later, it is far better not to have it, a Class 7 Power distributor offers you not only the flexibility of the weaponry (thus tactic) you can use (in my case Beam Lasers) but also doesn't force you to chose beteen Weapons and Boost.

Now, that a Combat ship weighting 130 t more than a Krait MK II can come with a 6 A Power Distributor baffles me, from my PoV it is short shigted and leaves the player with less choice and flexibility when it comes to maneuverability and Combat Persistence.

Last edit: 14 May 2024, 2:27am
Glen van Ross
14 May 2024, 2:17am
I don't know why you're taking offence to it, exactly.

I'm just offering the observation that most of the opposition we've encountered lately have been Python Mk IIs, and they have claimed some kills I would have expected our pilots to be able to evade, had they been Kraits or FdLs.

The Cutter remark was specifically referring to an a Python wing with Pacis and torps, not MCs. 1v1 you're going to escape anything in a properly-built Cutter; dying is entirely optional. Against a wing, it can be a different story (depending on composition). But I typically manage to get away from four-FdL wings without issue.
Thinder
14 May 2024, 3:56am
For those interested:

All 3 top Combat ships; (Python Mk II, Fer-de-Lance, Mamba) partly owes their performances to the fact that they are equiped with Class 6 Power Plants and Power Distributors, for Class A, it's a difference of 60 t compared to 7A equiping the Krait MK II.

My next test/experiment will be with a 6S Class Power Plant for the Krait MK II, right now she is sligly out masneuvered by the Python MK II but she still has her Class 7 Power plant.

I don't expect the difference it will make will allow her to be fully on par with the Ptyhon MK II especially in pitch but it will allow her to come a lot closer.

The question remaining are about overheating and Power Capacity, right now she has plenty of Power on tap but we will see once the 6A Power plant is fully engineered.
Meowers
14 May 2024, 4:27am
Why Pee Mk2 looks like an extensively used piece of soap? :p
Thinder
14 May 2024, 4:27am
ThinderFor those interested:

All 3 top Combat ships; (Python Mk II, Fer-de-Lance, Mamba) partly owes their performances to the fact that they are equiped with Class 6 Power Plants and Power Distributors, for Class A, it's a difference of 60 t compared to 7A equiping the Krait MK II.

My next test/experiment will be with a 6S Class Power Plant for the Krait MK II, right now she is sligly out masneuvered by the Python MK II but she still has her Class 7 Power plant.

I don't expect the difference it will make will allow her to be fully on par with the Ptyhon MK II especially in pitch but it will allow her to come a lot closer.

The question remaining are about overheating and Power Capacity, right now she has plenty of Power on tap but we will see once the 6A Power plant is fully engineered.


Glen van RossI don't know why you're taking offence to it, exactly.

I'm just offering the observation that most of the opposition we've encountered lately have been Python Mk IIs, and they have claimed some kills I would have expected our pilots to be able to evade, had they been Kraits or FdLs.

The Cutter remark was specifically referring to an a Python wing with Pacis and torps, not MCs. 1v1 you're going to escape anything in a properly-built Cutter; dying is entirely optional. Against a wing, it can be a different story (depending on composition). But I typically manage to get away from four-FdL wings without issue.


Right, the type of Cutter build that escape the laws of physics perhaps?

The Cutter weights stock 1100 t, not even the strongest Thruster is going to make it as maneuverable as an optimized corvette for this simple reason, Physics applies on this game and weight or/and acceleration are part of it. Revise your classics.

Then I'm not offended the slightest by reality denial, I stated TWO FACTS that are to the advantage of the Krait MK II:

1) Power distribution which is a limiting factor. 2) The absense of fighter hangar on all top 3 Combat ships.

My pilot is Elite, she rarely miss and with 3 X Gauss Cannons which are not only very effective vs shields (reason why I chose the XG9) but also posses a good armour piercing capability. I check the damage to target shield every time I see her hit (pink puff of smoke), so I know how fast she can deplete shield.


I don't know the fit the Krait MK II those guys claims to make small wood of have, all I can see is denial of FACT and those FACTS I have been stating from day one in this topic, I believe (anyone can correct me) that I was the first to post about the Python MK II and it didn't take me long to figure her limitations.

In fact I was on the watch for the availability of the Python II and might have been one of the first to be able to test her.

Now, what I KNOW for a fact is that with strictly similar weapon fits (minus one Class 3 for the Krait MK II), the Python MK II Power Distributor LIMITS the use of all weapons AND Boost simultaneously, a Class 3 Beam Laser will cut off pretty fast leaving the Python with the exact same weapon fit than the Krait.

The reason why I use this fit is pretty clear for those aware; the use of Corosive Shells increase all damage taken, at the cost of a 20% reduction in ammo capacity (for ONE Cannon and this includes Beam Lasers). While the effect is active,incoming damage from all sources is increased by 25% (all source MIGHT include the XG9 Lance fighter), and all attacks receive a +20 bonus to their armour piercing value.

Now if those factors are irrelevant to you, you can keep writing whatever and pretend that they don't exist, but first I don't need 4 X 3C Multi-cannon, I rather have a 3C Beam Laser [Fixed] Long range/Thermal Vent which will see its destructive power increased by 35% when I use my Cannons.

So let's bring back the debate to reality which is the 6/7 Class Power Plant and Distributors of each ships, again, at this level, the Krait MK II has the advantage at the cost of 60t for A class modules.

Last edit: 14 May 2024, 4:48am
Glen van Ross
14 May 2024, 4:47am
ThinderRight, the type of Cutter build that escape the laws of physics perhaps?

The Cutter weights stock 1100 t, not even the strongest Thruster is going to make it as maneuverable as an optimized corvette for this simple reason, Physics applies on this game and weight or/and acceleration are part of it. Revise your classics.

I'm not sure you comprehend my meaning at all. I am not suggesting a large ship dogfights 4 Kraits or FdLs.

A hauling cutter doesn't need to be manoeuvrable or dogfight 4-5 Kraits or FdLs, any more than a C-17 is meant to dogfight an Su-27. That would not be wise, in either event. A hauling cutter needs to have Class 6 prismatic shields, 6-7 shield boosters, decent armour. and a pilot that knows how to fly defensively. It only needs to survive 60-90 seconds (depending on whether one gets Grommed or not) to wake out and be beyond danger. With good pip management and half-decent flying, you are going to live to see tomorrow every time.

If that's reality denial, there are plenty of haulers that pull it off every week. But by all means, throw around more insults and pretend something else is being argued. I think we're done here.
Meowers
14 May 2024, 5:02am
Glen van Rossany more than a C-17 is meant to dogfight an Su-27
AC-130: "Come get some you lil piece of shit!"
Thinder
14 May 2024, 5:48am
Meowers
Glen van Rossany more than a C-17 is meant to dogfight an Su-27

AC-130: "Come get some you lil piece of shit!"

Glen van Ross
ThinderRight, the type of Cutter build that escape the laws of physics perhaps?

The Cutter weights stock 1100 t, not even the strongest Thruster is going to make it as maneuverable as an optimized corvette for this simple reason, Physics applies on this game and weight or/and acceleration are part of it. Revise your classics.


I'm not sure you comprehend my meaning at all. I am not suggesting a large ship dogfights 4 Kraits or FdLs.

A hauling cutter doesn't need to be manoeuvrable or dogfight 4-5 Kraits or FdLs, any more than a C-17 is meant to dogfight an Su-27. That would not be wise, in either event. A hauling cutter needs to have Class 6 prismatic shields, 6-7 shield boosters, decent armour. and a pilot that knows how to fly defensively. It only needs to survive 60-90 seconds (depending on whether one gets Grommed or not) to wake out and be beyond danger. With good pip management and half-decent flying, you are going to live to see tomorrow every time.

If that's reality denial, there are plenty of haulers that pull it off every week. But by all means, throw around more insults and pretend something else is being argued. I think we're done here.


Now you're gonna play the victim? SHOW US me insulting YOU please. I'm waiting.

If a Cutter CANT evade a Torpedo there is a problem, either the pilot got swarmed by multiple attackers, either he/she needs to update his/her S.A and on the list of what the cutter needs to be equipped with you forgot Electronic countermeasures, then I wasn't aware that the notion of evading didn't involve maneuvering.

There is no denying that the Python MK II was designed to dominate the Combat ships of the previous generation, it doesn't change the facts and those are as I stated repeatedly; like the Fer-de-Lance and Mamba, they partly owe their performances to the Class 6 Power Plant and Distributors, that's 60 t difference between them and a 7A equipped Krait MK II.

I'm in the process of equipping my Krait MK II with a 6 A and will see if it works, for the time being, I'm not listening to legends of forum about how some geezers got a kill on a hauler with a Python MK II using Torps, time will tell and we will see how people manage to counter this ship.

Once people will have figured how to counter them the buzz will fade, as for those who use Torpedo on haulers, I hope they have other weapon fits in their bags for different ships because the trade isn't gonna last.

Meowers
Glen van Rossany more than a C-17 is meant to dogfight an Su-27

AC-130: "Come get some you lil piece of shit!"




Some people really need a proper aviation lexicon but even the classic definition is clear about that, it doesn't involve dogfighting, and btw, the throttle axis is fully included in the maneuverability matrix, acceleration/drag/inertia.

Evading is the present participle of evade, which means to avoid or escape from someone or something. Learn how to use evading in sentences with synonyms, antonyms, and related words


Last edit: 14 May 2024, 6:01am
Thinder
14 May 2024, 6:19am
I don't know how they managed their stats with the Python but here we go...

P:ython MK II



Highly optimized Krait MK II.



The Krait will never hold a candle to the Python in the pitch axis, but it can be better in roll and yaw, Python is also faster in dry and boost thrust.

The gains in performance from a 7A to a 6A Power Plant are marginal and it looses quiet a bit in terms of Power Capacity. Be aware.
Glen van Ross
14 May 2024, 6:26am
Yeah, no. I'm done with you. Sound and fury signifying nothing. Have a nice life.
Meowers
14 May 2024, 6:30am
Dirty Dicks Dry Dock commercial has never been so close to the truth. :p
Kasumi Goto
14 May 2024, 7:03am
Not sure what I missed overnight, but I can’t say I managed to keep track very well reading up…
Thinder
14 May 2024, 7:37am
Glen van RossYeah, no. I'm done with you. Sound and fury signifying nothing. Have a nice life.


Yeah you too, don't forget to write Python update next time a ganker kills a hauler.

Kasumi GotoNot sure what I missed overnight, but I can’t say I managed to keep track very well reading up…


You missed a scoop, Python MK II flown by gankers killed a hauler and we got an update about aviation language where evading a threat involves dogfighting.

Anyway I find sad that it had to be a bunch of emotionally challenged cyber-bullies to report the first kills of the new combat ship, then I wonder where the laws of physics went for a ship 130‬ t stock heavier than a Krait MK II can end up with a pitch rate 8°/sec higher with the same Class 6 Thruster and engineering.

Smells like commercial BSting to me. Just saying...

Last edit: 14 May 2024, 7:46am
Meowers
14 May 2024, 7:42am
ThinderAnyway I find sad that it had to be a bunch of emotionally challenged cyber-bullies to report the first kills of the new combat ship, then I wonder where the laws of physics went for a ship 130‬ t stock heavier than a Krait MK II can end up with a pitch rate 8°/sec higher with the same Class 6 Thruster and engineering.
Its manoeuvring thrusters are more effective blah blah blah including the fact that, on any ship, you can get almost the same thrust out of those little holes as you're getting from a beast of an engine (or even several engines) with its exhaust pointed backwards in the classic way... We're living in a world where we can land on 63G planets anyway, no surprise. :p
Thinder
14 May 2024, 9:21am
Meowers
ThinderAnyway I find sad that it had to be a bunch of emotionally challenged cyber-bullies to report the first kills of the new combat ship, then I wonder where the laws of physics went for a ship 130‬ t stock heavier than a Krait MK II can end up with a pitch rate 8°/sec higher with the same Class 6 Thruster and engineering.

Its manoeuvring thrusters are more effective blah blah blah including the fact that, on any ship, you can get almost the same thrust out of those little holes as you're getting from a beast of an engine (or even several engines) with its exhaust pointed backwards in the classic way... We're living in a world where we can land on 63G planets anyway, no surprise. :p


Agreed. This is completely arbitrary, in all logic, if they have wanted to make the MK II more maneuverable than the previous Python, they would have made it lighter not 100 t heavier and equipped it with Class 7 Thrusters, with the same MASS-LOCK FACTOR???...

I can't wait to see what the next Combat ship will be like.

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