Elite: General talk

Descartes
28 Nov 2020, 12:34pm
Sir Sprockettso                 a  few people (Gankers/Griefers) who through their actions are forcing a vast majority of players from Open into SOLO. now.



Vast majority?  This is often repeated, but without a shred of evidence.

Just because a dozen or so may complain or comment here,  I suspect that the majority of players don't use this site - but that's a guess!

Gankers are just another hazard to be avoided, unless you want to take them on and fight back.
Sakashiro
28 Nov 2020, 1:59pm
DescartesVast majority?  This is often repeated, but without a shred of evidence.

While we don't know the exact numbers, we do have circumstantial evidence in the form of PvP players complaining about losing powerplay against invisible enemies in empty systems.

Of course there's a multitude of reasons to go solo, but we would be fooling ourselves if we disregarded ganking as a major contributing factor. Every single player who goes solo as a consequence of seal clubbing may stay in that mode for much longer than necessary and never be seen again. Seal clubbing is destructive to the MMO aspect of the game because it introduces open mode as a hostile environment populated by serial killers in overpowered ships. First impressions matter. If we want to see and interact with more players in the game, we maybe shouldn't be popping their ships at the very first opportunity and in the most asymmetric, unfair way possible. At least wait until they had a chance to earn some credits, make some friends, join a squadron etc., because at that point they are much more likely to stay in open even after a gank. Does that sound reasonable?
Descartes
28 Nov 2020, 2:46pm
That sounds reasonable, yes. I'm still not convinced that gankers are that much of a problem. Nuisance, yes. Pain in the butt, yes. Avoidable, yes.

Let me put it another way: We soon learn where pirates tend to congregate, and can avoid them. We know that if we venture into goid territory, we may get stung by corrosive chemicals and avoid them too, (or not, as we choose). I think the same goes for gankers.

As for me? I swing both ways. . . in and out.

p.s. just going out now.
Michael Wolfe
28 Nov 2020, 2:48pm
Sakashiro
DescartesVast majority?  This is often repeated, but without a shred of evidence.


While we don't know the exact numbers, we do have circumstantial evidence in the form of PvP players complaining about losing powerplay against invisible enemies in empty systems.

Of course there's a multitude of reasons to go solo, but we would be fooling ourselves if we disregarded ganking as a major contributing factor. Every single player who goes solo as a consequence of seal clubbing may stay in that mode for much longer than necessary and never be seen again. Seal clubbing is destructive to the MMO aspect of the game because it introduces open mode as a hostile environment populated by serial killers in overpowered ships. First impressions matter. If we want to see and interact with more players in the game, we maybe shouldn't be popping their ships at the very first opportunity and in the most asymmetric, unfair way possible. At least wait until they had a chance to earn some credits, make some friends, join a squadron etc., because at that point they are much more likely to stay in open even after a gank. Does that sound reasonable?



The devs themselves have stated that open is the most popular mode by a significant margin.
Igneel Prime
28 Nov 2020, 4:07pm
M. Lehman
Sakashiro
DescartesVast majority?  This is often repeated, but without a shred of evidence.



While we don't know the exact numbers, we do have circumstantial evidence in the form of PvP players complaining about losing powerplay against invisible enemies in empty systems.

Of course there's a multitude of reasons to go solo, but we would be fooling ourselves if we disregarded ganking as a major contributing factor. Every single player who goes solo as a consequence of seal clubbing may stay in that mode for much longer than necessary and never be seen again. Seal clubbing is destructive to the MMO aspect of the game because it introduces open mode as a hostile environment populated by serial killers in overpowered ships. First impressions matter. If we want to see and interact with more players in the game, we maybe shouldn't be popping their ships at the very first opportunity and in the most asymmetric, unfair way possible. At least wait until they had a chance to earn some credits, make some friends, join a squadron etc., because at that point they are much more likely to stay in open even after a gank. Does that sound reasonable?




The devs themselves have stated that open is the most popular mode by a significant margin.


Neither does that change why people go to solo/PG nor does it mean that can't change if the future if the seal clubbing doesn't change or get punished. In the recent case where people used Epic's free accounts to club sidewinders I would even consider banning the people involved because that's a loophole to something that definitely isn't meant to be happening
Michael Wolfe
28 Nov 2020, 4:16pm
Igneel Prime
M. Lehman
Sakashiro


While we don't know the exact numbers, we do have circumstantial evidence in the form of PvP players complaining about losing powerplay against invisible enemies in empty systems.

Of course there's a multitude of reasons to go solo, but we would be fooling ourselves if we disregarded ganking as a major contributing factor. Every single player who goes solo as a consequence of seal clubbing may stay in that mode for much longer than necessary and never be seen again. Seal clubbing is destructive to the MMO aspect of the game because it introduces open mode as a hostile environment populated by serial killers in overpowered ships. First impressions matter. If we want to see and interact with more players in the game, we maybe shouldn't be popping their ships at the very first opportunity and in the most asymmetric, unfair way possible. At least wait until they had a chance to earn some credits, make some friends, join a squadron etc., because at that point they are much more likely to stay in open even after a gank. Does that sound reasonable?





The devs themselves have stated that open is the most popular mode by a significant margin.



Neither does that change why people go to solo/PG nor does it mean that can't change if the future if the seal clubbing doesn't change or get punished. In the recent case where people used Epic's free accounts to club sidewinders I would even consider banning the people involved because that's a loophole to something that definitely isn't meant to be happening


Wringing one's hands that people are choosing to play in the modes best suited for them strikes me as a solution in search of a problem.

Last edit: 28 Nov 2020, 4:28pm
Silver Taffer
28 Nov 2020, 5:43pm
Descartes
Vast majority?  This is often repeated, but without a shred of evidence.


Yeah, I find myself rolling my eyes way back in my head every time someone introduces “the majority of people” or quotes percentages that support their point of view without the slightest validation.


For what it’s worth here is a summary of my experience of ED over 5 years of play:
First two years spent exclusively in Solo, just enjoying and learning my way around, relying on YouTube tutorials when instructions were needed.
My first experience of open play was during an early Beta (what happens in Beta etc, etc). I got attacked by PvP’ers and inevitably destroyed twice in my first session. After the second attack I thought “Open Play? Fuck that!”, and logged back into Solo.
BUT, the thought that there was a huge part of the Elite:Dangerous experience I was missing out on began to rankle. Here on Inara I began looking at ‘Wings’ (as they were then) and plucking up the courage to join one. I did and found that the game as I knew it was just a scratch on the surface! With advice and support from other like-minded players I now play in Open almost exclusively and can claim with some certainty that so-called ‘ganking’ is very rare, unexpected PvP encounters nearly as rare, as long you exercise caution in CG systems and Engineer locations.
I am enjoying Elite more now than ever, and still learning!
Ok, so this is MY experience. But I wonder how many others gravitate to Open Play in their own time and remain despite rare PvP attacks?

Frankly I think the complexity of ED, and the sheer amount of time and application required to master it, is the primary reason for newer players (and some more experienced ones too) turning to other games. Is PvP the main threat to the future of the Elite:Dangerous?
I don’t believe it is, but what do I know?
Igneel Prime
28 Nov 2020, 5:58pm
Another thing worth considering is consistency. The generally low amount of ganking going on in Elite certainly isn't a problem. If it is for anyone those people should probably consider staying in solo or playing games without any PvP to begin with. However, the seal clubbing that happened when Epic gave away Elite for free was disgusting regardless of that and deserves some attention. Ganking won't kill Elite as things are now. But if this is what happens when such loopholes open up and something that would bring people into the game is turned into some asshole's enjoyment in butchering new players then that's just not ok. Doesn't matter how much of an effect that actually had on those people's intention to play the game.
Silver Taffer
28 Nov 2020, 6:06pm
Nothing new there , I remember Pallaeni at the start of Distant Worlds 2 - all those juicy, under-engineered, papier-machėe exploration ships for the PvP’ers to chase! My Alt, Don Uggie, just got out by the skin of his teeth in his eggshell Krait Phantom!
User282288
28 Nov 2020, 6:07pm
Let's be all honest here:

"Open equal ground" PVP is not a thing, because FDev introduced Engineering which looked good on paper, but never took into consideration how OP some builds can be. Sure, you can spend time on min-maxing the built meant for PVP, but then again what about these "relaxed players"? They see little sense in doing PVP built min-maxing or even doing Engineering beyond "FSD + two/three Guardian modules" - mostly because the last thing they want is to spend entire month on doing nothing but Engineers, materials and stuff, day after day per one hour (or even less).

Not that that 95% of the in-game combat activities you'll be using builds that are to last long in RES, against PVE enemies - save for that PVE specific case, which is Thargoid hunting.


TL;DR
PVP in ED is not something you can just jump into "like that", even if you have reasonable ship that massacres Elite Federal Corvettes. That sets ED light years away from the typical multiplayer games, which do offer at least some degree of balancing and matchmaking.

Last edit: 28 Nov 2020, 6:19pm
Igneel Prime
28 Nov 2020, 7:01pm
Another thing is that Elite just isn't a mainly PvP game. In a lot of other games like EVE for example there is at least some focus on PvP. In Elite it is an option. There are a lot of other aspects of Elite that are definitely bigger selling points for the game. PvP is more of a side effect of how we interact with the world which other players are also a part of.
ArtifactHunter_
29 Nov 2020, 4:58am
*Alert for all CMDRs*

CMDRs WebGonePostal and CaptainRocker are ganking ships using Orcas and ramming them to death in Mandh on PS4.

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 29 Nov 2020, 5:38pm
PausenbrotTV
29 Nov 2020, 5:04am
So they are having fun... I see  :D

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 29 Nov 2020, 5:38pm
ArtifactHunter_
29 Nov 2020, 5:21am
ArtifactHunter_*Alert for all CMDRs*

CMDRs WebGonePostal and CaptainRocker are ganking ships using Orcas and ramming them to death in Mandh on PS4.


PausenbrotTVSo they are having fun... I see


I just got CMDR Captainrocker sent to the nearest prison by tricking them into blowing me up INSIDE the station.

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 29 Nov 2020, 5:38pm
ArtifactHunter_
29 Nov 2020, 6:05am
ArtifactHunter_
ArtifactHunter_*Alert for all CMDRs*

CMDRs WebGonePostal and CaptainRocker are ganking ships using Orcas and ramming them to death in Mandh on PS4.



PausenbrotTVSo they are having fun... I see



I just got CMDR Captainrocker sent to the nearest prison by tricking them into blowing me up INSIDE the station.


Got CMDR WebGonePostal sent to the nearest prison after upgrading my T9, [ICOD] Blue Whale, and ramming them outside the station as I noticed they had boosted towards me. Allowed all five beam lasers turret fire, was seen by at least two other CMDRs. CMDR WebGonePostal was destroyed by the station security after my death.

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 29 Nov 2020, 5:38pm

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