ZentzlbHad a noob friend that had been playing the game for less than a week that got ganked while he was trying to land at farseer yesterday. He was not deterred from playing in the slightest. The ship insurance policy in this game is incredibly forgiving, most other games you would just lose the ship. Repeated ganking can be toxic but dying one or two times is only a roadblock if you have a bad attitude.

Sakashiro

ZentzlbHad a noob friend that had been playing the game for less than a week that got ganked while he was trying to land at farseer yesterday. He was not deterred from playing in the slightest. The ship insurance policy in this game is incredibly forgiving, most other games you would just lose the ship. Repeated ganking can be toxic but dying one or two times is only a roadblock if you have a bad attitude.

A rebuy or two is not a big deal. Losing a week of exploration data on the other hand...

Explorers should always switch to solo when returning.

M. Lehman

Aleksander Majjam

M. LehmanLike it or not, the game allows for this kind of behavior. It seems like a far more productive use of your time would be to learn evasive skills and outfit properly. If that's something you can't be bothered to do, then select the mode most appropriate for your skill level and risk tolerance.



And I'll say one more thing: it's okay for new players to not know everything. It's okay to experience setbacks in one's early game. These are the experiences that enable people to develop skill and proper expectations.

Open isn't for everyone, and that's okay too.

LMAO. Holy shit. I swear I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here.

Players in fully engineered ships blowing up new Sidewinders to bits for fun and you want these new players to make better use of their time? How can they possibly do this when they're griefed? The idea that some of you think gankers are "teachers" is absolutely laughable.

No one, and I mean no one, should have their first MMO experience in Elite dictated and ruined by gankers. These aren't setbacks. Forgetting my limpets when I get to my mining location is a setback. Getting killed in PP is a setback. Losing some of my cargo to pirates is a setback.

Sorry, I just don't understand the normalizing of ganking. I really don't. But hey, when there are people condoning this I can understand why people go into solo and just stay there and/or never stick around long enough. This probably even wouldn't be a discussion but we have players that come on these forums and antagonize others for playing in solo as well, so there's that.

Of we two, who has the more realistic approach for helping a new player successfully navigate open? The one urging that players learn from setbacks so that they see the importance of developing proper evasive skills and outfitting, or the one who is stamping his foot because sometimes players get attacked?

Aleksander Majjam

M. Lehman

Aleksander Majjam



LMAO. Holy shit. I swear I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here.

Players in fully engineered ships blowing up new Sidewinders to bits for fun and you want these new players to make better use of their time? How can they possibly do this when they're griefed? The idea that some of you think gankers are "teachers" is absolutely laughable.

No one, and I mean no one, should have their first MMO experience in Elite dictated and ruined by gankers. These aren't setbacks. Forgetting my limpets when I get to my mining location is a setback. Getting killed in PP is a setback. Losing some of my cargo to pirates is a setback.

Sorry, I just don't understand the normalizing of ganking. I really don't. But hey, when there are people condoning this I can understand why people go into solo and just stay there and/or never stick around long enough. This probably even wouldn't be a discussion but we have players that come on these forums and antagonize others for playing in solo as well, so there's that.

Of we two, who has the more realistic approach for helping a new player successfully navigate open? The one urging that players learn from setbacks so that they see the importance of developing proper evasive skills and outfitting, or the one who is stamping his foot because sometimes players get attacked?

You thinking ganking is the only way that new players can learn evasive skills and outfitting? When a baby is born, do you punch it in the face and tell yourself that said baby will learn from its setbacks and the importance of defending itself by getting punched in the face early in its life by someone stronger and more knowledgeable than it?

I won't even entertain getting into the second portion of your comment because you have no clue about what I do in terms of helping others, especially new players, beyond Inara. If you think I'm stamping my foot because "sometimes players are getting attacked in open" ..then you have got no idea what my gripe is about, because it isn't that.

M. Lehman

Aleksander Majjam

M. Lehman



Of we two, who has the more realistic approach for helping a new player successfully navigate open? The one urging that players learn from setbacks so that they see the importance of developing proper evasive skills and outfitting, or the one who is stamping his foot because sometimes players get attacked?

You thinking ganking is the only way that new players can learn evasive skills and outfitting? When a baby is born, do you punch it in the face and tell yourself that said baby will learn from its setbacks and the importance of defending itself by getting punched in the face early in its life by someone stronger and more knowledgeable than it?

I won't even entertain getting into the second portion of your comment because you have no clue about what I do in terms of helping others, especially new players, beyond Inara. If you think I'm stamping my foot because "sometimes players are getting attacked in open" ..then you have got no idea what my gripe is about, because it isn't that.

Setbacks are a fantastic teacher, in both life and video games. Run out of fuel in the middle of a bunch of non-scoop able stars? Lesson learned. Approach that high-g planet too quickly and you ate a rebuy from impacting the surface? Lesson learned. Sacrifice shields and armor in a place where a lot of PvP happens for the sake of getting extra cargo space? Well, you take your chances.

Also, your baby metaphor is beyond insulting, both to those of us who have a mature view of what to expect in Elite and to new players in general- whom you apperantly view as infantile specimens, incapable of learning, too delicate to handle a setback in a new game, who wish to play not a game but a never-ending tutorial mode.

M. LehmanSetbacks are a fantastic teacher, in both life and video games. Run out of fuel in the middle of a bunch of non-scoop able stars? Lesson learned. Approach that high-g planet too quickly and you ate a rebuy from impacting the surface? Lesson learned. Sacrifice shields and armor in a place where a lot of PvP happens for the sake of getting extra cargo space? Well, you take your chances.

M. Lehman

Aleksander Majjam[quote=M. Lehman]



Of we two, who has the more realistic approach for helping a new player successfully navigate open? The one urging that players learn from setbacks so that they see the importance of developing proper evasive skills and outfitting, or the one who is stamping his foot because sometimes players get attacked?

You thinking ganking is the only way that new players can learn evasive skills and outfitting? When a baby is born, do you punch it in the face and tell yourself that said baby will learn from its setbacks and the importance of defending itself by getting punched in the face early in its life by someone stronger and more knowledgeable than it?

I won't even entertain getting into the second portion of your comment because you have no clue about what I do in terms of helping others, especially new players, beyond Inara. If you think I'm stamping my foot because "sometimes players are getting attacked in open" ..then you have got no idea what my gripe is about, because it isn't that.

M. Lehman

M. Lehman

Aleksander Majjam

M. Lehman



Of we two, who has the more realistic approach for helping a new player successfully navigate open? The one urging that players learn from setbacks so that they see the importance of developing proper evasive skills and outfitting, or the one who is stamping his foot because sometimes players get attacked?

You thinking ganking is the only way that new players can learn evasive skills and outfitting? When a baby is born, do you punch it in the face and tell yourself that said baby will learn from its setbacks and the importance of defending itself by getting punched in the face early in its life by someone stronger and more knowledgeable than it?

I won't even entertain getting into the second portion of your comment because you have no clue about what I do in terms of helping others, especially new players, beyond Inara. If you think I'm stamping my foot because "sometimes players are getting attacked in open" ..then you have got no idea what my gripe is about, because it isn't that.

Setbacks are a fantastic teacher, in both life and video games. Run out of fuel in the middle of a bunch of non-scoop able stars? Lesson learned. Approach that high-g planet too quickly and you ate a rebuy from impacting the surface? Lesson learned. Sacrifice shields and armor in a place where a lot of PvP happens for the sake of getting extra cargo space? Well, you take your chances.

Also, your baby metaphor is beyond insulting, both to those of us who have a mature view of what to expect in Elite and to new players in general- whom you apparently view as infantile specimens, incapable of learning, too delicate to handle a setback, and wishing to play not a fleshed-out game but a never-ending tutorial. New players aren't babies, and being realistic with them about how to navigate open isn't "punching a baby in the face", but the best thing one could possibly do for them.

Note that I'm not a ganker- but I'm virtually ungankable even in a Sidewinder because I bothered to learn the game instead of complain about it. And on those occasions when I've eaten a rebuy screen? I shrug, get over it, and ask myself what I could have done better because that's what adults do.


EDIT: praytell, what do you do to help new players prepare for open?

Sakashiro

M. LehmanSetbacks are a fantastic teacher, in both life and video games. Run out of fuel in the middle of a bunch of non-scoop able stars? Lesson learned. Approach that high-g planet too quickly and you ate a rebuy from impacting the surface? Lesson learned. Sacrifice shields and armor in a place where a lot of PvP happens for the sake of getting extra cargo space? Well, you take your chances.

Minor setbacks can be handled, major ones can be devastating. I still remember the day when I docked my Sidewinder in Colonia after weeks of jumping, scanning and mapping. I had no shields (too heavy), no docking computer (not enough room), and I was still a newbie who hadn't docked at a station for weeks. I was so damn nervous, my hands were shaking, lol.

If I had lost my ship at that point, I don't think I would have started over. I guess I would have quit the game and played something else instead.

Aleksander Majjam

M. Lehman

M. Lehman



Setbacks are a fantastic teacher, in both life and video games. Run out of fuel in the middle of a bunch of non-scoop able stars? Lesson learned. Approach that high-g planet too quickly and you ate a rebuy from impacting the surface? Lesson learned. Sacrifice shields and armor in a place where a lot of PvP happens for the sake of getting extra cargo space? Well, you take your chances.

Also, your baby metaphor is beyond insulting, both to those of us who have a mature view of what to expect in Elite and to new players in general- whom you apparently view as infantile specimens, incapable of learning, too delicate to handle a setback, and wishing to play not a fleshed-out game but a never-ending tutorial. New players aren't babies, and being realistic with them about how to navigate open isn't "punching a baby in the face", but the best thing one could possibly do for them.

Note that I'm not a ganker- but I'm virtually ungankable even in a Sidewinder because I bothered to learn the game instead of complain about it. And on those occasions when I've eaten a rebuy screen? I shrug, get over it, and ask myself what I could have done better because that's what adults do.


EDIT: praytell, what do you do to help new players prepare for open?

Okay, yeah. We're done here. Insinuating that people who have been ganked have no reason to complain and/or those that voice their displeasure about it aren't adults because they don't suck it up.. yeah. See ya, buddy.

Zentzlb

Had a noob friend that had been playing the game for less than a week that got ganked while he was trying to land at farseer yesterday. He was not deterred from playing in the slightest. The ship insurance policy in this game is incredibly forgiving, most other games you would just lose the ship. Repeated ganking can be toxic but dying one or two times is only a roadblock if you have a bad attitude.

M. LehmanAs harsh as it might sound, it is 100% fair for a player in an engineered Fer de Lance to dominate in combat against a new player in a Sidewinder. It is 100% fair for a seasoned explorer to be more skilled at using a neutron star to supercharge their frameshift drive than a player who has never seen one. It is 100% fair for a player group with a hundred dedicated players to win a BGS war against a smaller group of fifty.

Sakashiro

M. LehmanAs harsh as it might sound, it is 100% fair for a player in an engineered Fer de Lance to dominate in combat against a new player in a Sidewinder. It is 100% fair for a seasoned explorer to be more skilled at using a neutron star to supercharge their frameshift drive than a player who has never seen one. It is 100% fair for a player group with a hundred dedicated players to win a BGS war against a smaller group of fifty.

That is absolutely reasonable.

The problem with baby seal ganking though is the absence of motivation in the context of the game world. As a writer, you know that quality stories require characters driven by motivation. Even the villains need some reason to do what they're doing. So what is the motivation of a ganker to club baby seals? There certainly is one, but it exists outside the game world only. There's no narrative, no roleplay, no purpose in it other than to fill someone's Twitch stream and generate clicks. You can literally see these people as three-year olds in a sandbox, destroying things their peers have built, "for the lulz".

The result of course is that the sandbox will become a little more empty every time that happens. Other children will leave and play somewhere else. In ED, "somewhere else" means solo or private groups. The fact that Mobius has 40,000 members should be reason for concern (not to FDev but to us), because it means at any given moment there are likely more players active in that group than in open. Considering this, it's not surprising that PvP'ers keep begging FDev to make powerplay open-exclusive. Mobius has taken their proverbial ball -- along with a large chunk of ED's player base -- and gone home, leaving the three-year old sociopaths behind in the sandbox.