Elite: General talk

Episparh
26 Nov 2020, 8:32am
Dadeblunts

Not always. I got attacked by a pirate trying to steal 15t of painite from me last week. I try to not fly a total tin can so i managed to get away before he could drop my shields.

I sure did not provoke him, but he provided me with some excitement and i wouldnt consider him to be a "bad" player. Just a pirate guy.


Although this may have a reasoning... I still do not see how the pirate is good for the target. If you do the RP and just want a small share it might pass as neutral interaction but we all know why this do not happen. In any case if the target opts out from sharing he will definitely look into avoiding the pirate by any means.
Pirates were never good. Don't let the Hollywood fool you.

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 26 Nov 2020, 11:23am
Asahi Lorenzo
26 Nov 2020, 8:36am
Dadeblunts


Not always. I got attacked by a pirate trying to steal 15t of painite from me last week. I try to not fly a total tin can so i managed to get away before he could drop my shields.

I sure did not provoke him, but he provided me with some excitement and i wouldnt consider him to be a "bad" player. Just a pirate guy.


I get that it's the Wild West, and trains and carriages get robbed because the gang wants to earn their stash to kick back and chill someday on a tropical beach.  But to get ganked for simply 'being' there? What's the motivation for that?

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 26 Nov 2020, 11:23am
Dadeblunts
26 Nov 2020, 8:37am
Episparh
Dadeblunts

Not always. I got attacked by a pirate trying to steal 15t of painite from me last week. I try to not fly a total tin can so i managed to get away before he could drop my shields.

I sure did not provoke him, but he provided me with some excitement and i wouldnt consider him to be a "bad" player. Just a pirate guy.



Although this may have a reasoning... I still do not see how the pirate is good for the target. If you do the RP and just want a small share it might pass as neutral interaction but we all know why this do not happen. In any case if the target opts out from sharing he will definitely look into avoiding the pirate by any means.
Pirates were never good. Don't let the Hollywood fool you.



Hes good for the target because hes RPing a pirate in a space MMO where you can be anything you want. He is for him, making credits, for me, giving me a challenge, and for everyone playing, populating the game with another varied player type.

It would be boring as all hell if everyone played the same role and there was absolutely zero danger. Should we get rid of overheating as well? After all, in what way is someones ship blowing up good for them?

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 26 Nov 2020, 11:23am
Episparh
26 Nov 2020, 8:44am
So the positive side is that bad guys are a reason for others to learn how to avoid/deal with them.... Still remains bad guys in game terms though.

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 26 Nov 2020, 11:24am
Rotwhylr
26 Nov 2020, 8:48am
SakashiroWhy can't we just be friends?

Btw, after yesterday's livestream with Cow and the Pilot, I was wondering, what's the big deal with combat logging? I know task killing is a terms of service violation; I'm talking about c-logging via menu, with the cooldown. I hear people say that it's a cowardly thing to do, but why? If someone is in a cardboard ship and realizes they have zero chance to survive a confrontation, why are you expecting them to bend over and take it in the rear? It seems a tiny bit hypocritical to me when gankers demand not to be judged by their playstyle choice but then judge c-loggers as cowards. Certainly we can agree that c-logging is no more cowardly than seal clubbing and no more immersion-breaking than pressing Ctrl-B, no?

I think it is funny when non-consensual PvPers (seems like an easier grouping than trying to split hairs on what technically qualifies as a gank) justify themselves by saying "the game allows it, therefore it is a valid play style", and then turn around in the next breath and criticize people for using the menu logging option that is built into the game.

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 26 Nov 2020, 11:24am
Dadeblunts
26 Nov 2020, 8:50am
EpisparhSo the positive side is that bad guys are a reason for others to learn how to avoid/deal with them.... Still remains bad guys in game terms though.


We all play a role. But i have traded tens of thousands of slaves so i guess im a bad guy too.

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 26 Nov 2020, 11:24am
Silver Taffer
26 Nov 2020, 8:52am
Dadeblunts
EpisparhSo the positive side is that bad guys are a reason for others to learn how to avoid/deal with them.... Still remains bad guys in game terms though.



We all play a role. But i have traded tens of thousands of slaves so i guess im a bad guy too.


Just ask the slaves

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 26 Nov 2020, 11:24am
Episparh
26 Nov 2020, 8:52am
Dadeblunts
EpisparhSo the positive side is that bad guys are a reason for others to learn how to avoid/deal with them.... Still remains bad guys in game terms though.



We all play a role. But i have traded tens of thousands of slaves so i guess im a bad guy too.


This is different story. You did nothing bad to me and I never saw you doing harm to others as far as I know.

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 26 Nov 2020, 11:24am
Episparh
26 Nov 2020, 8:54am
Silver Taffer


Just ask the slaves

... or the slave trader and the customer.

Everything is a point of view.

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 26 Nov 2020, 11:24am
Xeknos
26 Nov 2020, 8:55am
Rotwhylr
SakashiroWhy can't we just be friends?

Btw, after yesterday's livestream with Cow and the Pilot, I was wondering, what's the big deal with combat logging? I know task killing is a terms of service violation; I'm talking about c-logging via menu, with the cooldown. I hear people say that it's a cowardly thing to do, but why? If someone is in a cardboard ship and realizes they have zero chance to survive a confrontation, why are you expecting them to bend over and take it in the rear? It seems a tiny bit hypocritical to me when gankers demand not to be judged by their playstyle choice but then judge c-loggers as cowards. Certainly we can agree that c-logging is no more cowardly than seal clubbing and no more immersion-breaking than pressing Ctrl-B, no?


I think it is funny when non-consensual PvPers (seems like an easier grouping than trying to split hairs on what technically qualifies as a gank) justify themselves by saying "the game allows it, therefore it is a valid play style", and then turn around in the next breath and criticize people for using the menu logging option that is built into the game.


You want to be careful using that term, also. Comparing PvP to something like rape is both disingenuous and, frankly, deeply offensive.

Being temporarily inconvenienced in a video game is not at all comparable to a horrific and traumatic event.

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 26 Nov 2020, 11:24am
Igneel Prime
26 Nov 2020, 8:56am
SakashiroWhy can't we just be friends?

Btw, after yesterday's livestream with Cow and the Pilot, I was wondering, what's the big deal with combat logging? I know task killing is a terms of service violation; I'm talking about c-logging via menu, with the cooldown. I hear people say that it's a cowardly thing to do, but why? If someone is in a cardboard ship and realizes they have zero chance to survive a confrontation, why are you expecting them to bend over and take it in the rear? It seems a tiny bit hypocritical to me when gankers demand not to be judged by their playstyle choice but then judge c-loggers as cowards. Certainly we can agree that c-logging is no more cowardly than seal clubbing and no more immersion-breaking than pressing Ctrl-B, no?


The thing with combat logging is it's a guaranteed denial of content and lazy way to survive the encounter by means that aren't within the game's world. Seal clubbing is just as much of a cowardly dick move yes but mere pvp isn't always seal clubbing even if unconsentual. Combat logging is essentially cheating to avoid death seal clubbing is intentionally attacking the weak. PvP doesn't have to involve either and as mentioned before there's a fix for it and I like the EVE variant. Elite already has a short timer but in many cases that short enough to be no obstacle. In EVE there's even a difference between PvE and PvP. Engaging in PvE gives you a 5 minute timer, PvP 10 minutes. You can still log out but your ship will remain killable in space unless already docked at a station. Someone tries to log out to save their ass it backfires because their ship sits there defenceless for a couple minutes.

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 26 Nov 2020, 11:24am
Episparh
26 Nov 2020, 8:57am
The thing is I cannot justify a person who wants to kill me, steal from me or taking me hostage in a game being good to me in a game. Regardless of how you paint it it is still bad actions (reminder, talking purely for in-game)

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 26 Nov 2020, 11:24am
Renraiku
26 Nov 2020, 8:58am
That is a very specific scenario and precludes intent on spoiling someones day. This is not what I was discussing, nor do I recall using that as my point of reference. I will indulge you, however my PvP intention is not necessarily to reduce progress.

Perhaps there is a war going on against a couple of Squadrons/Player Minor Factions, one or both of them seem to be using proxies to fight (BgS or War it doesn't matter) for them, I see a clean commander in the system, not obviously part of the opposing squadron but not a friend I recognise, they could be a proxy, I attempt to hail them, no response, I try again, still no response, I interdict them and then hail them, no response, I fire upon them and destroy them. Is this bad?

Perhaps they do communicate, it is possible they are not telling the truth, if I then destroy them is that bad?

It turns out in the end they were not a proxy, were my actions and intentions bad?

Normally in this particular situation I would communicate to them to leave the system and only if they didn't would I respond with force.

Another one for you, say you are working a CZ, I jump into the CZ and choose the opposite side and destroy you, is that bad?

or You have a 500cr bounty but you are just on your merry way and I destroy you, is that bad?

Say you are pledged to an opposing PP Faction and I see you and destroy you is that bad? In this particular case you were progressing without provocation, it is purely your PP alignment that sparks the attack. This is fully legal but many would cry Ganker.

Your thoughts?

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 26 Nov 2020, 11:25am
Sakashiro
26 Nov 2020, 9:00am
Silver Taffer
Dadeblunts
EpisparhSo the positive side is that bad guys are a reason for others to learn how to avoid/deal with them.... Still remains bad guys in game terms though.




We all play a role. But i have traded tens of thousands of slaves so i guess im a bad guy too.



Just ask the slaves

No comment.

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 26 Nov 2020, 11:25am
Igneel Prime
26 Nov 2020, 9:02am
RenraikuRight, Define Ganking.

If your definition is destroying a commander that is not an equal with you then every fight you win is a gank. some people believe this.

If you believe that ganking is only clubbing noobs, then this is not the best thing to happen to a new player and I don't condone it but I won't tell them how to play.

If you believe ganking is ganging up on a single player as multiple enemies, well this requires more definition, what was the reason for this action?

there are obviously more definitions but I don't have them all at hand.

Once you have defined it let me know and then I can answer you with specific examples in context.


I'd sort them by chance of opponent winning the fight

-even pvp: say you go to an area where people do pvp and either go for an honorable duel or otherwise challenge people who are clearly there for that purpose
-ganking: attacking people regardless of their ability to do pvp. for example going to a thargoid CG and attacking the AX and maybe the pvp police there
-seal clubbing: deliberately attacking players considerably less capable than yourself like new players in the starting area

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 26 Nov 2020, 11:25am

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