Xeknos

Rotwhylr

SakashiroWhy can't we just be friends?

Btw, after yesterday's livestream with Cow and the Pilot, I was wondering, what's the big deal with combat logging? I know task killing is a terms of service violation; I'm talking about c-logging via menu, with the cooldown. I hear people say that it's a cowardly thing to do, but why? If someone is in a cardboard ship and realizes they have zero chance to survive a confrontation, why are you expecting them to bend over and take it in the rear? It seems a tiny bit hypocritical to me when gankers demand not to be judged by their playstyle choice but then judge c-loggers as cowards. Certainly we can agree that c-logging is no more cowardly than seal clubbing and no more immersion-breaking than pressing Ctrl-B, no?

I think it is funny when non-consensual PvPers (seems like an easier grouping than trying to split hairs on what technically qualifies as a gank) justify themselves by saying "the game allows it, therefore it is a valid play style", and then turn around in the next breath and criticize people for using the menu logging option that is built into the game.

You want to be careful using that term, also. Comparing PvP to something like rape is both disingenuous and, frankly, deeply offensive.

Being temporarily inconvenienced in a video game is not at all comparable to a horrific and traumatic event.

RenraikuThat is a very specific scenario and precludes intent on spoiling someones day. This is not what I was discussing, nor do I recall using that as my point of reference. I will indulge you, however my PvP intention is not necessarily to reduce progress.


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RenraikuRight. So you can see where not all unprovoked attacks are bad.

SakashiroPiracy isn't ganking because even weak ships are given a fair chance to avoid destruction by handing over cargo.

Conflict zone killing isn't ganking either because entering a CZ implies consent.

Technically I've never been ganked because the only time my ship was destroyed was in a CZ that was part of a community goal. Fair and square, no complaints.

Rotwhylr

Xeknos

Rotwhylr


I think it is funny when non-consensual PvPers (seems like an easier grouping than trying to split hairs on what technically qualifies as a gank) justify themselves by saying "the game allows it, therefore it is a valid play style", and then turn around in the next breath and criticize people for using the menu logging option that is built into the game.

You want to be careful using that term, also. Comparing PvP to something like rape is both disingenuous and, frankly, deeply offensive.

Being temporarily inconvenienced in a video game is not at all comparable to a horrific and traumatic event.

I'm not comparing it to rape.  I'm trying to find an expression that encompasses a PvP encounter to which one side literally does not consent, particularly in light of the largely fruitless attempts to have agreement over what constitutes ganking or griefing.  The term "non-consensual" is not owned by one set of people, and has legitimate uses outside the context of sexual assault.  See also: non-consensual medical intervention, non-consensual monitoring or surveillance, etc.

Do you have a better way to describe that kind of encounter? Also, do you have any thoughts on the point I was trying to make?

Asahi LorenzoOk I'm relatively new to ED. So far all the things I've done have been motivated by my wanting better ships, engineering modules and weapons, um putting my name on systems. So I work for credits and go exploring looking for the undiscovered.

For the 'pro-gankers' here - what do you get from ganking? Is it just a 'fun' thing to do? Is it breast-beating? Am really curious.

A pirate can make a living hunting vulnerable ships near Nav Beacons or Resource Extraction points, forcing them to dump their cargo or tearing straight into their cargo hatch. The most daring pirates can extort other commanders or use limpet drones to extract cargo straight from their target’s hold, and sell the loot at a local Black Market.

Aleksander Majjam

Asahi LorenzoOk I'm relatively new to ED. So far all the things I've done have been motivated by my wanting better ships, engineering modules and weapons, um putting my name on systems. So I work for credits and go exploring looking for the undiscovered.

For the 'pro-gankers' here - what do you get from ganking? Is it just a 'fun' thing to do? Is it breast-beating? Am really curious.

The majority of people are normal and are motivated by those same things. What people are really seeking is to do those things with others, and having flown with others there's nothing quite like EDing in a group.

Meanwhile, ganking serves no purpose other than having fun stopping the progress of others. That's it. Nothing else. They're the same kind of people that will team kill you in a HC CoD match. They log in to do nothing other than to cause grief.

I was ganked as a new player at a Res site trying to parasite off NPC's to make enough credits to get out of my Sidewinder. The ganker was an FDL. When I finally got into my second ship, an Adder to mine, I got ganked by ANOTHER fucking FDL from the station on my way to Borann. I think a lot of it stems from bored players being bored when the game becomes stagnant and that's been a thing for ED for awhile.

As for pirating. Not ganking whatsoever. I've been pirated before and the experience was awesome. Felt like a true MMO at the time. The comms were threatening and hilarious at the same time. I was happy to dump a portion of my LTD for the effort.

RenraikuMy apologies, I retract my last comment.

The game distinguishes the actions differently from your moral code of good and bad.

Destroying you legally = good

Destroying you illegally = bad

KalenarWe need to be careful to avoid conflating the player's and character's perspective here.

There's no such thing as "non-consensual PvP" for players -- you opted into PvP by playing in open. Characters usually don't consent to getting blown up outside of combat zones and what not, but what can you do? It's a dangerous world.

Likewise, you could argue that PvP is additional content and therefore "good" (not in the moral sense) for players. One character shooting another without a bounty is morally "bad", which is what Epi seems to be getting at, but again, so what? It's a dangerous world.

Then there's of course the issue of immersion: A person shooting anyone in sight is very erratic behaviour for a character in a dangerous universe -- you don't stand to gain much and take the risk (which should arguably be bigger) of losing assets and reputation. A pirate asking for part of your cargo makes much more sense because they actually get something out of it.