Elite: General talk

Artie
16 Sep 2022, 2:24pm
Yuna Sakashiro
How to elevate it? By reporting the warning?

By their forum rules, this should be a way:
Appealing a moderation action

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Kirky007
16 Sep 2022, 3:05pm
Just finished reading the last few pages here. I like many bought the pre-paid Odyssey and was looking forward to a step up from Horizons. I was absolutely bombed on first impression. I didn't want space legs and I most certainly didn't want a new UI. After maybe 3 or 4 visits I had reverted back to playing Horizons fully.

The biggest issue for me overall is not being able to play with others especially my Squadron mates as they have happily transitioned across to Odyssey. I was looking forward to using Horizons 4.0 to interact now. Alas that won't happen for the reasons mentioned already, Bruce.

I have an Alt running Horizons and I will load it up to see how it interacts on 4.0 but I imagine the new UI will present itself. Like Broken Mess I have stopped spending money on Arx and will never buy another Frontier title again.

The good news is, you won't have to read me whine when Artie kills off old Inara because I won't be using the new look version. There's change and change for change's sake...
Does anyone agree that the only/best change was when they upgraded from that old Legacy modification routine?

Old man signing out.

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 17 Sep 2022, 4:25pm
Lambast Mercy
16 Sep 2022, 3:28pm
They have got very prickly since they started doing their Twitch thing again. I think all the flack they got for the Odyssey release has made them sensitive.

Whatever the excuse, it’s not good for the community.
User167261
16 Sep 2022, 3:33pm
I also have a Horizons only alt, but uninstalled that last year and since yesterday figured I don't fancy downloading what basically entails another copy of Odyssey i.e. ~50GB, just to confirm what many have already confirmed in that Horizons 4.0 is basically Odyssey but with choice features disabled.

As for Inara, to be fair to Artie, after an initial 'yikes' moment I actually think new Inara is pretty well designed and I enjoy using it now, don't feel I want to go back to the old version anymore.

So @Artie thumbs up from me shame you're not working for Frontier (you'll probably glad you don't!) as their UI could do with a full revision itself, even after all the tweaks over the past 1.5 years.

PS - played a bit of 3.8 earlier thanks to ongoing stability issues they conjured up in the most recent patch (which again, didn't come with any patch notes... guess who cares right) and it's been a blast, even while planetside - the stellar lighting makes a huge difference atmosphere (no pun) wise even if the textures aren't as good as in EDO. Feels more like a 'place' though than the more miss than hit EDO terrain. Upgrade my Arx.

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 17 Sep 2022, 4:25pm
Sakashiro
16 Sep 2022, 4:16pm
Broken MessI also have a Horizons only alt, but uninstalled that last year and since yesterday figured I don't fancy downloading what basically entails another copy of Odyssey i.e. ~50GB, just to confirm what many have already confirmed in that Horizons 4.0 is basically Odyssey but with choice features disabled.

According to some reports on the forums, if you log into ED with a Horizons-only account, your already installed Odyssey client will magically be recognized as Horizons 4.0.

Which of course is exactly what makes the whole affair so ridiculous. This is literally Odyssey running in Horizons mode, the feature that we were promised from the start. Except that FDev now decided to leverage it against us.

I can accept excuses such as "we couldn't finish feature X in time" or "we couldn't make feature X work on that hardware". But this is the finished product we were waiting for, so why can't we have it? Oh, because it is now used to coerce Horizons users to upgrade their accounts. "We know that you don't really want to leave your ship and walk around, we know that the on-foot grind isn't appealing and that surface missions are still a buggy mess, but if you don't upgrade, we're afraid you can't play with all those other players we are holding hostage!"

As Odyssey owners, we are no longer customers; we have become part of the product being sold.

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 17 Sep 2022, 4:25pm
Goff
16 Sep 2022, 4:31pm
Kirky007
The good news is, you won't have to read me whine when Artie kills off old Inara because I won't be using the new look version. There's change and change for change's sake... Does anyone agree that the only/best change was when they upgraded from that old Legacy modification routine? Old man signing out.

Totally agree with statement, real contents are being replaced with fancy decorations instead... another thing if EDH and EDO are different games, INARA ranking system also should be separated. EDO players get unfair advantage by collecting extra rating credits for the bio and fps missions so INARA is acting like a proxy for EDO in that matter.

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 17 Sep 2022, 4:25pm
User167261
16 Sep 2022, 4:55pm
Yuna Sakashiro
Broken MessI also have a Horizons only alt, but uninstalled that last year and since yesterday figured I don't fancy downloading what basically entails another copy of Odyssey i.e. ~50GB, just to confirm what many have already confirmed in that Horizons 4.0 is basically Odyssey but with choice features disabled.


According to some reports on the forums, if you log into ED with a Horizons-only account, your already installed Odyssey client will magically be recognized as Horizons 4.0.

Which of course is exactly what makes the whole affair so ridiculous. This is literally Odyssey running in Horizons mode, the feature that we were promised from the start. Except that FDev now decided to leverage it against us.

I can accept excuses such as "we couldn't finish feature X in time" or "we couldn't make feature X work on that hardware". But this is the finished product we were waiting for, so why can't we have it? Oh, because it is now used to coerce Horizons users to upgrade their accounts. "We know that you don't really want to leave your ship and walk around, we know that the on-foot grind isn't appealing and that surface missions are still a buggy mess, but if you don't upgrade, we're afraid you can't play with all those other players we are holding hostage!"

As Odyssey owners, we are no longer customers; we have become part of the product being sold.


Frontier's behaviour is one thing, what really does get me is how quite a number of posters seem to be just okay with it and trying to defend it by simply parroting the half baked excuse ('demo' - lol - everyone on 4.0 EDH or EDO was supposed to be the status quo last year if the DLC hadn't bombed so badly performance wise, I'm actually surprised we still have access to 3.8 so many months later!) Bruce has provided. Shifting goalposts is fine then and indeed none of the superfanbois seem to have noticed or care... although even one of the most ardent white knighters (starting with F) is pointing out the issue here but even for him it's an uphill struggle, it's quite entertaining to watch to be honest, in a car-crash kind of way.

All I can do is just play the game as it is, consider it the final product, treat it like a single player game that no longer gets supported and when I get truly bored then that's that. I did get a good run out of it to be fair, but all that potential that likely never will be (at least not with the current B-team in charge).

I often wonder what Elite would look like in the hands of a more capable and visionary developer - I certainly miss the earlier days when you could still sense the fire the dev team had for Elite; now they're mostly hiding behind the CM team and you can feel their discomfort when one of them has to attend a live stream. I guess the focus is with their other IPs these days. They're just coasting it now and even that is still a challenge with the ongoing regression issues and new bugs being introduced, so from that standpoint 3.8 being in maintenance mode isn't maybe such a bad thing after all.

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 17 Sep 2022, 4:25pm
Kirky007
16 Sep 2022, 5:16pm
I attended Lavecon this year, for the first time. It had been cancelled twice already because of the Covid situation and finally nearly 3 years later we were getting it together, I was on tenterhooks.
Considering the time and the fact that people were turning up travelling from not only all around the country but from across the world, I couldn't believe that Frontier's representatives stated that they had nothing to declare or offer on anything upcoming in the game. Totally shocking. Tells it all.

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 17 Sep 2022, 4:25pm
Co'hen MacBain
16 Sep 2022, 8:39pm
Mac4
Well, that took me all of a 10-minute or so test flight to sell me on Odyssey, haha. It looks just great, doesn't it. Now to get to grips with all of these new options, and no, I haven't done any FPS'ing yet. Where's the nearest concourse, heheh

Wow. I tried 4.0 today and I laughed out loud at how terrible it looks! Of course, I'll only be laughing as long as 3.8 is still accessible - once that goes away, I'll be uninstalling instead.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 17 Sep 2022, 4:30pm
User167261
16 Sep 2022, 9:34pm
Been catching up on the last few pages of the 'official' 4.0 yay thread, my god 35 pages and people are still not grasping the issue. People who are long term posters and who I would've thought are smart enough to get it, yet keep slinging false equivalences left right and centre.

Odyssey owners want to play H4 to instance with players who don't want to or can't buy Odyssey but don't want to hook up in 3.8 because that's locked out of future story content. This isn't rocket science.

EDIT - and a few posters who think it's triple-A OK to not allow Odyssey owners access to H4 and instead encourage them to convince Horizons players to buy the DLC. Like a Frontier sales team b**** but no commission yo. /facepalm

I think I'm finally losing faith in humanity, and want to get off this planet please.

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 17 Sep 2022, 4:24pm
Kurakil
16 Sep 2022, 11:25pm
When Horizons first came out with the first engineering iteration (the slot machine version) and the associated material grind, I said... some unpleasantries... and didn't play at all for over 2 years, since there was nothing new for me to do that was even remotely interesting. When they removed some of the rng from the engineering process and added the material brokers, I started playing again since it was "less ridiculous". Odyssey hasn't even risen to that level of incompetence yet. If it took them a few years to adjust a garbage mechanic that is considered as "optional", imagine how long it would take for them to make any real and tangible improvements to something that is (supposed to be) a core part of the game, not to mention even acknowledging a problem in the first place.

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 17 Sep 2022, 4:24pm
Sabors
17 Sep 2022, 9:10am
Broken MessBeen catching up on the last few pages of the 'official' 4.0 yay thread, my god 35 pages and people are still not grasping the issue. People who are long term posters and who I would've thought are smart enough to get it, yet keep slinging false equivalences left right and centre.

Odyssey owners want to play H4 to instance with players who don't want to or can't buy Odyssey but don't want to hook up in 3.8 because that's locked out of future story content. This isn't rocket science.

EDIT - and a few posters who think it's triple-A OK to not allow Odyssey owners access to H4 and instead encourage them to convince Horizons players to buy the DLC. Like a Frontier sales team b**** but no commission yo. /facepalm

I think I'm finally losing faith in humanity, and want to get off this planet please.


It's ridiculous, dude. In any other online game, when an expansion is released, players with and without the expansion can play with each other in content they both own. You don't own the expansion? You don't get to play the expansion's content. Pretty simple and straight forward. Yet you both still have the base game the expansion builds on, so anything players do in that content they can still do together.

But FDev has decided to break that norm and go Nah. We're separating the playerbase. They've brought Horizons to the same version as Odyssey. They both have the same base content. But they're locked out from one another anyway unless they both drop down to 3.8 and miss out on the new story stuff that both versions are receiving. Players shouldn't have to even switch from O4 to H4. There should just be 4.0, period.

The *only* reason to do this is to try and force people into buying Odyssey. It's a dick move at the expense of the players. If you want players to buy Odyssey so badly, then make Odyssey worth buying instead of strong arming friend groups

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 17 Sep 2022, 4:24pm
User167261
17 Sep 2022, 9:56am
Firstly, the funny thing is people are still theorising why FDev have done this. When they already multiple times explicitly explained it. Can't get any clearer than that but I think the most ardent fanboys and girls can't see the wood from the trees and want to believe that Frontier is one of the "good guys" when it comes to developers; they used to be imo but the last couple of years have seen a change on that front. It's like a cult.

Secondly, I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually cave in and make it available but only after they burned more goodwill of the customer base by letting this shitstorm fester for a while. So unnecessary but that's Frontier for you.

I imagine management pushed for this tactic because Odyssey isn't selling well and they're trying to squeeze as much out of it by any means as possible, this to me feels like it's a desperate "last hurrah" move without any consideration to the long term reputation of the franchise which isn't a great sign - surely you wouldn't do that to your signature IP if you wanted to keep it going beyond the next year or so. Or they're just really that witless in their marketing team who knows.

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 17 Sep 2022, 4:24pm
Sakashiro
17 Sep 2022, 10:17am
FYI, I played Odyssey in Horizons 4.0 mode last night, and even in base game mode!

It's really simple to make this work. All you need is the app "Process Explorer" from the Sysinternals Suite (free download from the Microsoft Store), launch Odyssey as usual, and then look up the properties of the EliteDangerous64.exe process. The app will show you the current directory and the full command line that the Frontier launcher uses to launch Odyssey.

Next you open a command prompt, use "cd" to set the same current directory, then paste the entire command line and append the parameter "SeasonTwo" (or "SeasonOne" if you want base game mode). Now exit Odyssey and press enter in the command prompt window to launch the game again with the modified command line.

The first change you will notice is the intro cinematic: it's the old one from Horizons. In the game's main menu you will see either the Horizons logo or the original base game logo, depending on the mode you chose. Everything works as expected: Horizons will hide the Disembark button, base game mode will prevent you from landing on planets, etc.

Instancing with other players is possible if they use the same game mode. Last night I tried open mode in Horizons 4.0 and actually saw another player in Shinrarta Dezhra.

Bottom line: If you need base game mode only occasionally to get your SRV unstuck, this little hack does the trick. You can uninstall client 3.8 and use those 20 GB for something else.

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 17 Sep 2022, 4:24pm
User167261
17 Sep 2022, 10:31am
That'll blow those people's mind who still believe the reason FDev refuses to provide access to Ody owners is due to technical reasons.

Got to say though, I played both Ody and 3.8 last night, and am wondering if I should just stick with the latter until new story content hits. It's all the little niggles, bugs, visual glitches and jank (my frame rate is mostly fine tbh but it still hitches during transitions) in Ody making it feel like a cheap, unfinished product. 3.8 otoh feels silky smooth and most of the gameplay bugs didn't make it over (yet). I still think it's the prettier game of the two as well. Ody just looks dark and flat in comparison.

On top of that since I maxed most of my on foot gear, there's little reason to boot up Ody as there's little incentive to engage in that entire loop - settlements and POI farming for mats - and exo bio bores me to tears after 10 minutes of holding fire 3 times at a time. Most of my gameplay is still Horizons based and that still is best experienced in 3.8 (visually and bug wise, eg. PWA bug).

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 17 Sep 2022, 4:24pm

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