Elite: General talk

Artie
26 Sep 2022, 9:35am
Yuna Sakashiro
But you do agree that it's a cop-out, don't you?

Yeah, their decision certainly seems to be driven by business/marketing reasons more than by something else, probably to make a bigger bang with the future game updates. I guess they took a calculated risk and were fully aware this step may not be exactly popular. But if I should speculate by the available numbers, it (still) seems to be working.
Episparh
27 Sep 2022, 5:17am
Console launch was never a condition. The condition was addind updated graphics client to Horizons owners and putting old client in maintenance mode.

So now we have console launch canceled, which in my book is same as delivered on a time line AKA it passed.

EDH4 is rolled widely and EDH3.8 is put in maintenance mode.

Not only Frontier denies instancing of EDH4 and EDO in non-DLC content but they also deny access to EDH4 to EDO owners.

And again, instancing was promised pre-release of EDO and we know now that technically it is possible.

Frontier is trying everything to sell more DLC copies... Everything except fixing the DLC and making it more appealing to players.
Sakashiro
29 Sep 2022, 1:55am




I have no idea which of my posts crossed the line this time. As far as I can tell, none has been deleted. The EDH4/EDO comparison thread is still online. There's a private message waiting in my inbox which would probably give more details, but since I'm banned from the forums, I can't read it.

Kafkaesque indeed.
Mitxel
29 Sep 2022, 5:30am
Yuna Sakashiro



I have no idea which of my posts crossed the line this time. As far as I can tell, none has been deleted. The EDH4/EDO comparison thread is still online. There's a private message waiting in my inbox which would probably give more details, but since I'm banned from the forums, I can't read it.

Kafkaesque indeed.

Wellcome to the FFBL.
Frontier Forum Banned League!!
XD
Episparh
29 Sep 2022, 6:33am
What the F is 7 infraction points?
Where is it said you are banned?
How you violated the rules?
Kurakil
29 Sep 2022, 6:48am
EpisparhHow you violated the rules?

That's what I'm wondering. I'm not on the forums regularly but I've seen plenty of people be far less reserved in their posts and nothing seems to happen to them. The moderators seem rather biased... which is the exact wrong characteristic to have in a moderator. Is there a specific list of "offensive/objectionable content" that can be referenced? Otherwise it is left up to someone's interpretation and thickness of skin to determine what is acceptable. Of course I guess you can claim harassment or something along those lines if you are being banned for seemingly no good reason, or if others are not being banned for similar types of posts, unless they are just banning everyone who doesn't sing FDev's praises.
Episparh
29 Sep 2022, 7:06am
Kurakil

... Is there a specific list of "offensive/objectionable content" that can be referenced? Otherwise it is left up to someone's interpretation and thickness of skin to determine what is acceptable. Of course I guess you can claim harassment or something along those lines if you are being banned for seemingly no good reason, or if others are not being banned for similar types of posts, unless they are just banning everyone who doesn't sing FDev's praises.



3) There is a Zero-Tolerance Policy on posts containing:
  • Pornographic, erotic, lewd material;
  • Illegal (e.g. warez, pirated) software, cheating or hacking (be it websites or game services/client);
  • Discussion of cheating methods;
  • Trademarked / copyrighted content that does not belong to you;
  • Discriminatory, racist, sexist, or offensive content;
  • References to non-game related illegal drugs, narcotics, drug paraphernalia, or illegal substances;
  • Discussion of non-game related criminal activity;
  • References to harm or bring about real-world harm to any individual or group;
  • Harassment or attacks on individual members of staff or Frontier teams
  • Other content that Frontier Staff or the Volunteer Moderation Team deem unsuitable, or if it is in dispute from the owner of the content.
This includes content linking to 3rd party websites that contain such content.


Yes, last point is anything that staff or mods consider unsuitable. Their house their rules.
User167261
29 Sep 2022, 7:40am
EpisparhTheir house their rules.


That's ultimately it, it's just unfortunate that their own rules often don't apply to either mods/staff (I once had one of the CMs have a direct go at me - so much for the "discuss the post not the poster" rule) or some of the more militant apologists who seem to get away with getting personal, trolling, baiting, derailing threads until they get closed and so on, as long as the tone of their posts remain in the company's interest.

I used to have no troubles at all for years until my posts got considerably more negative i.e. when Odyssey released the way it did (but I made sure to keep things civil and constructive, specifically so I wouldn't get moderated) things then changed quite a bit where my posts kept getting deleted without even notifying me, thread posting bans and so on. As a result spent more time talking with others via PM but eventually realised it's pointless if you can't discuss stuff frankly on a forum so I left.

But yeah, it's a company-owned forum so they can rule it however they like of course. Fwiw though, I read most if not all of Sakashiro's posts and didn't see anything wrong with them when considering the forum rules (other than fighting a losing battle with the white knights).
Sakashiro
29 Sep 2022, 8:09am
MitxelWellcome to the FFBL.
Frontier Forum Banned League!!
XD

Will I get a decal for my ships?

EpisparhYes, last point is anything that staff or mods consider unsuitable. Their house their rules.

I think I found the post that disappeared. It's my reply to this post where Ozric claimed that my post on Inara had been deleted.

I remember telling him that it's still online but that its permalink had changed twice and that I didn't bother to relink it after min-ed-launcher had been updated.

I told him that I wouldn't post the latest URL because he would likely construe that as encouragement.

And finally I told him that I would continue using Horizons 4.0 and wouldn't go back to 3.8 because it's already uninstalled.

So there. That's a banworthy offense on Frontier's forums. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Sakashiro
29 Sep 2022, 8:30am
Broken MessBut yeah, it's a company-owned forum so they can rule it however they like of course. Fwiw though, I read most if not all of Sakashiro's posts and didn't see anything wrong with them when considering the forum rules (other than fighting a losing battle with the white knights).

Yup, it's quite obvious at this point that the mods make people disappear for having the wrong opinion.

I know these are volunteer moderators and not paid Frontier staff, but since Frontier put them in positions of authority, anything they do is on Frontier, too.

Which of course makes it even easier for me to refrain from giving Frontier any more money.
User167261
29 Sep 2022, 9:05am
Yuna Sakashiro

Yup, it's quite obvious at this point that the mods make people disappear for having the wrong opinion.


What annoyed me most were the aforementioned silent deletions - at some point I thought I'd go crazy wondering whether I posted something and where, or not. Kinda reminds me a little of the Peralez storyline in CP2077, lol.

I know these are volunteer moderators and not paid Frontier staff, but since Frontier put them in positions of authority, anything they do is on Frontier, too.


I'd say some mods are worse than others, I also sometimes wonder whether they do actually follow the rule that mods who get engaged in a thread don't also moderate it. We'll never know and I guess it doesn't really matter, as I'm sure they talk to each other behind the curtains. But yeah, regardless of legal reality of their relation with Frontier, perception is what matters to the random forumite/customer.

Which of course makes it even easier for me to refrain from giving Frontier any more money.


My wallet's been closed since March '21 the last purchase being the 'premium' 'alpha' version. Been quite surprised I kept this up throughout the year despite keeping playing the game, as my credit card was running on full tap for years, I suppose a lack of quality skins for ships, how they look in 4.0 vs 3.8, and the ridiculous price points of EDO gear certainly helped my resolve.

Was almost getting soft with those latest ship kits but when you look closer even those have the familiar issues (and they're not cheap for what you get), I can't justify throwing more money at them while older items I bought are still broken, sometimes comically so (check out the older skins for the Beluga - almost all of them I own are fkd still, not even subtely, that's at least 10-15 Euros down the pan, similarly for most of the FC skins I own, or the iridescent skins, and various more).

I spend my cash on other games' DLCs instead - from developers who don't have to rely on strong-arming customers to buy their products via questionable tactics; the selling is done purely by the quality (and price point) of the product itself.

It continues to be interesting to watch though how others are still begging Frontier to come up with more contrived ways to extract money from them (insert random industry-standard feature other games offer for free, such as multiple save slots). A fool and their money and all that (I do admit I used to be one myself).

Last edit: 29 Sep 2022, 9:16am
Kurakil
29 Sep 2022, 9:28am
So there are no checks and balances for the "moderators", which also tells me (yet again) that FDev could care less about its players or its community as a whole, and they just picked some of their favorite paladins and turned them loose. Sounds like they are at least consistent with their hypocrisy. It's a shame the ones who get blackballed are the ones whose points they are proving.
User167261
29 Sep 2022, 9:36am
At the end of the day Frontier is a company like any other - ethical behaviour is only followed when it is beneficial (to them).

This is not meant as a slight towards them, but that's how it works in reality, for better or worse. There's countless examples from across different industries.
Kurakil
29 Sep 2022, 9:44am
Broken MessAt the end of the day Frontier is a company like any other - ethical behaviour is only followed when it is beneficial (to them).

This is not meant as a slight towards them, but that's how it works in reality, for better or worse. There's countless examples from across different industries.

Oh I'm not surprised at all. In fact I fully expect it. But that doesn't mean I have to like it.
User167261
29 Sep 2022, 9:56am
Kurakil
Broken MessAt the end of the day Frontier is a company like any other - ethical behaviour is only followed when it is beneficial (to them).

This is not meant as a slight towards them, but that's how it works in reality, for better or worse. There's countless examples from across different industries.


Oh I'm not surprised at all. In fact I fully expect it. But that doesn't mean I have to like it.


I just tried to be as objective as possible

But yeah, same... ethical behaviour of a company very much flows into my purchasing decisions, although with certain necessities that's not always realistic. Having said that, pooter games are probably the most straightforward product in this regard

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