Offtopic
11 Feb 2021, 6:33am
Post edited/moved by: Artie, 11 Feb 2021, 10:27am
11 Feb 2021, 8:08am
QuillmonkeySakashiroQuillmonkeyI do not think that the concept of racial equality is inherently racist.
Racial equality and racial equity are different things. In fact they contradict each other.
Racial equality refers to equal opportunity regardless of skin color.
Racial equity refers to racial discrimination to achieve equal outcomes between groups of different skin colors. Here's an example:
No, don't even start on that. I am not going to follow you down your embafflement with racial equity. This is not a conversation I am comfortable having on a gaming board. It is actually quite shocking.
Quillie, you do realise you started it, right?
As for the uncomfortable and shocking, it's good to stunble upon something that once in a while. How else can you know if your ideas are right, and what does the society actually think of them, if you don't debate them?
Post edited/moved by: Artie, 11 Feb 2021, 10:27am
11 Feb 2021, 8:25am
MeicynQuillmonkeySakashiro
Racial equality and racial equity are different things. In fact they contradict each other.
Racial equality refers to equal opportunity regardless of skin color.
Racial equity refers to racial discrimination to achieve equal outcomes between groups of different skin colors. Here's an example:
No, don't even start on that. I am not going to follow you down your embafflement with racial equity. This is not a conversation I am comfortable having on a gaming board. It is actually quite shocking.
Honestly it’s disappointing to read. The imagery of equity is often depicted of two individuals standing in front of a fence, with equity portrayed as the short individual being given a box to stand on so that they can see on the other side of the fence just as easily as the taller unassisted individual can.
Based on what I am reading, it seems some would be more concerned that the taller individual did not also receive a box, and thus some form of injustice were committed against the taller individual even when they don’t need it. Either both get a box, or neither in the spirit of equality. If the shorter person can’t see over the fence without the box, well, that’s just life I guess and they should just do without, even though there is a box there that one of them could be given. No no, can’t have preferential treatment here!
It’s such a cynical style of thinking that automatically assigns victimhood to the party that didn’t also get something, framed in a vacuum without taking any circumstances into consideration. I can’t relate to it.
Not every individual deserves to be given a box, or the box to be taken away from him, and their height is just one of the many deciding factors, and definetly should not be the main one. Making the fence shroter sounds like a good solution for everyone, but then again it might loose the ability to protect the spectators: it's original, intended purpose.
In reality, all three of them should stop cheating. If you want to have the better view of the game, just buy the damned tickets and sit on a bench like you're supposed to.
Post edited/moved by: Artie, 11 Feb 2021, 10:27am
11 Feb 2021, 8:39am
MeicynQuillmonkeySakashiro
Racial equality and racial equity are different things. In fact they contradict each other.
Racial equality refers to equal opportunity regardless of skin color.
Racial equity refers to racial discrimination to achieve equal outcomes between groups of different skin colors. Here's an example:
No, don't even start on that. I am not going to follow you down your embafflement with racial equity. This is not a conversation I am comfortable having on a gaming board. It is actually quite shocking.
Honestly it’s disappointing to read. The imagery of equity is often depicted of two individuals standing in front of a fence, with equity portrayed as the short individual being given a box to stand on so that they can see on the other side of the fence just as easily as the taller unassisted individual can.
Based on what I am reading, it seems some would be more concerned that the taller individual did not also receive a box, and thus some form of injustice were committed against the taller individual even when they don’t need it. Either both get a box, or neither in the spirit of equality. If the shorter person can’t see over the fence without the box, well, that’s just life I guess and they should just do without, even though there is a box there that one of them could be given. No no, can’t have preferential treatment here!
It’s such a cynical style of thinking that automatically assigns victimhood to the party that didn’t also get something, framed in a vacuum without taking any circumstances into consideration. I can’t relate to it.
^THIS^
Examples such as this box one love to gloss over the history and the side effects of not being able to see over the fence. It's 'unfair' that the taller person doesn't get a box, but it's 'OK' that they've been reaching over the fence to steal apples out of the shorter persons tree, and using their observations to call the police at every opportunity to report any disturbance in the shorter persons backyard potentially getting them a criminal record and all that entails. The truth of course that if the short person could see over the fence they'd be appalled at the pile of rotting half-eaten apples behind it.
God forbid they get a box and the tall person doesn't though...
Last edit: 11 Feb 2021, 5:17pm
11 Feb 2021, 8:54am
MeicynQuillmonkeySakashiro
Racial equality and racial equity are different things. In fact they contradict each other.
Racial equality refers to equal opportunity regardless of skin color.
Racial equity refers to racial discrimination to achieve equal outcomes between groups of different skin colors. Here's an example:
No, don't even start on that. I am not going to follow you down your embafflement with racial equity. This is not a conversation I am comfortable having on a gaming board. It is actually quite shocking.
Honestly it’s disappointing to read. The imagery of equity is often depicted of two individuals standing in front of a fence, with equity portrayed as the short individual being given a box to stand on so that they can see on the other side of the fence just as easily as the taller unassisted individual can.
Based on what I am reading, it seems some would be more concerned that the taller individual did not also receive a box, and thus some form of injustice were committed against the taller individual even when they don’t need it. Either both get a box, or neither in the spirit of equality. If the shorter person can’t see over the fence without the box, well, that’s just life I guess and they should just do without, even though there is a box there that one of them could be given. No no, can’t have preferential treatment here!
It’s such a cynical style of thinking that automatically assigns victimhood to the party that didn’t also get something, framed in a vacuum without taking any circumstances into consideration. I can’t relate to it.
You conveniently removed the aspect of race from the picture. Body height is an individual trait, not a racial one. Racism is the assumption that all people of skin color X are also short and in need of extra boxes, and that all people of skin color Y should be denied a box regardless of height.
If you make race a criterion for the distribution of boxes, then you're quite literally racist. There's no way to sugarcoat it.
Post edited/moved by: Artie, 11 Feb 2021, 10:27am
11 Feb 2021, 9:18am
Burstarbut it's OK that they've been reaching over the fence to steal apples out of the shorter persons tree
Just a quick reminder here: The narrative of race X stealing from race Y is what led to the holocaust.
Post edited/moved by: Artie, 11 Feb 2021, 10:27am
11 Feb 2021, 12:14pm
SakashiroBurstarbut it's OK that they've been reaching over the fence to steal apples out of the shorter persons tree
Just a quick reminder here: The narrative of race X stealing from race Y is what led to the holocaust.
No reminder necessary. You're grossly misinterpreting the metaphor.
11 Feb 2021, 1:02pm
Last edit: 11 Feb 2021, 1:08pm
11 Feb 2021, 4:14pm
Measures to introduce some semblance of parity are far from perfect, but a damn sight better than disingenuously reframing one's privileged self as the victim.
11 Feb 2021, 5:22pm
11 Feb 2021, 5:54pm
ArtieAs I mentioned in other thread - if you want to discuss it, then politely to each other, please. Otherwise I will consider this topic as the one of a kind that should be ended immediately.
Sorry Artie. This is a fiery topic for me for sure, and I was editing my post when you deleted it.
As a half-breed with a white mother and black father, it's a bit of a slap in the face to be called a racist because you believe that those that have suffered through racial oppression should be afforded opportunities for racial parity against those that certainly don't need it (and even presume that ones that don't need it are the victims). There are people here using examples that ignore that racism is still a problem, and very much so in the US. They are ignoring that there are racists at the top of the totem pole destroying opportunities to others seeking racial parity/equality.
The videos I posted are tough to watch, but it's a reality for a lot of people.
11 Feb 2021, 5:56pm
ie: "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.”
― Lyndon B. Johnson
Edit: and here's my favourite SNL skit that shows this.
Last edit: 11 Feb 2021, 6:01pm
11 Feb 2021, 7:44pm
Aleksander MajjamAs a half-breed with a white mother and black father, it's a bit of a slap in the face to be called a racist because you believe that those that have suffered through racial oppression should be afforded opportunities for racial parity against those that certainly don't need it (and even presume that ones that don't need it are the victims). There are people here using examples that ignore that racism is still a problem, and very much so in the US. They are ignoring that there are racists at the top of the totem pole destroying opportunities to others seeking racial parity/equality.
Racial equality is an attainable goal. Racial parity is a pipe dream. You'll never have equal representation of white or Asian people in the NBA, for example. Or in the music business. The reality is that different people are good at different things (and I'm not talking about races here but about individuals), and the best we can do is create conditions where every one of them can realize their full potential. The worst we could do is keep telling some people that they're born victims and that their efforts are in vain because society is rigged against them. Because it isn't. In a capitalist society you can become wealthy no matter what color your skin is. Plenty of examples exist. That's what equal opportunity is all about.
Preferential treatment in the name of social justice will not end racism but create more of it. There is income inequality within all racial minorities in the U.S. Go tell some white trailer trash dude in the rural south about his white privilege. Yeah, that'll cure his racism and make him feel guilty, I'm sure.
11 Feb 2021, 9:06pm
That's all what I have to say on that subject.
Last edit: 11 Feb 2021, 9:16pm
11 Feb 2021, 10:22pm
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