Sakashiro

Aleksander MajjamAs a half-breed with a white mother and black father, it's a bit of a slap in the face to be called a racist because you believe that those that have suffered through racial oppression should be afforded opportunities for racial parity against those that certainly don't need it (and even presume that ones that don't need it are the victims). There are people here using examples that ignore that racism is still a problem, and very much so in the US. They are ignoring that there are racists at the top of the totem pole destroying opportunities to others seeking racial parity/equality.

Racial equality is an attainable goal. Racial parity is a pipe dream. You'll never have equal representation of white or Asian people in the NBA, for example. Or in the music business. The reality is that different people are good at different things (and I'm not talking about races here but about individuals), and the best we can do is create conditions where every one of them can realize their full potential. The worst we could do is keep telling some people that they're born victims and that their efforts are in vain because society is rigged against them. Because it isn't. In a capitalist society you can become wealthy no matter what color your skin is. Plenty of examples exist. That's what equal opportunity is all about.

Preferential treatment in the name of social justice will not end racism but create more of it. There is income inequality within all racial minorities in the U.S. Go tell some white trailer trash dude in the rural south about his white privilege. Yeah, that'll cure his racism and make him feel guilty, I'm sure.

Sakashiro

Meicyn

Quillmonkey



No, don't even start on that. I am not going to follow you down your embafflement with racial equity. This is not a conversation I am comfortable having on a gaming board. It is actually quite shocking.

Honestly it’s disappointing to read. The imagery of equity is often depicted of two individuals standing in front of a fence, with equity portrayed as the short individual being given a box to stand on so that they can see on the other side of the fence just as easily as the taller unassisted individual can.

Based on what I am reading, it seems some would be more concerned that the taller individual did not also receive a box, and thus some form of injustice were committed against the taller individual even when they don’t need it. Either both get a box, or neither in the spirit of equality. If the shorter person can’t see over the fence without the box, well, that’s just life I guess and they should just do without, even though there is a box there that one of them could be given. No no, can’t have preferential treatment here!

It’s such a cynical style of thinking that automatically assigns victimhood to the party that didn’t also get something, framed in a vacuum without taking any circumstances into consideration. I can’t relate to it.

You conveniently removed the aspect of race from the picture. Body height is an individual trait, not a racial one. Racism is the assumption that all people of skin color X are also short and in need of extra boxes, and that all people of skin color Y should be denied a box regardless of height.

If you make race a criterion for the distribution of boxes, then you're quite literally racist. There's no way to sugarcoat it.

MeicynAh yes, the classic white privilege counterdefense, born from a complete misunderstanding of what white privilege is. Hint: white privilege does not imply every white person in the universe was born with a silver spoon in their mouth.

MeicynHow is it that, despite the wide range of variety exhibited in American demographics, that there has been only one non-white President of the United States across close to two and a halfish centuries?

MeicynYou pretty much confirmed my suspicions. You are entirely focused on the boxes and the distribution of them, rather than the empowerment of all present.

I left out race because I am not the author of the original example, and also because it doesn’t matter. There was no attempt to associate certain traits to certain races because it wasn’t the point. But let’s explore this for a moment, since race seems very important to you.

MeicynWhat if I told you the shorter person in the example was black and the taller kid was white?

Sakashiro

MeicynAh yes, the classic white privilege counterdefense, born from a complete misunderstanding of what white privilege is. Hint: white privilege does not imply every white person in the universe was born with a silver spoon in their mouth.

So what does it imply? What conditions must be met for you to say that white privilege no longer exists?

MeicynHow is it that, despite the wide range of variety exhibited in American demographics, that there has been only one non-white President of the United States across close to two and a halfish centuries?

How is it that, despite the majority of the U.S. population being white, systemically racist and misogynist, there has been a non-white president and now a female non-white vice president? How many majority black countries have elected non-black leaders in the last two and a half centuries? Again, what is your standard here? Should presidents be appointed according to genetic makeup rather than elected?

MeicynYou pretty much confirmed my suspicions. You are entirely focused on the boxes and the distribution of them, rather than the empowerment of all present.

I left out race because I am not the author of the original example, and also because it doesn’t matter. There was no attempt to associate certain traits to certain races because it wasn’t the point. But let’s explore this for a moment, since race seems very important to you.

Excuse me, but if we discuss racial equity, then yes, race is an important part of the discussion, not something to be left out. The problem in racial equity is not the equity part but the race part. No one suggests that helping people in need is a bad idea, as long as the qualifying element is "need" and not "race".

MeicynWhat if I told you the shorter person in the example was black and the taller kid was white?

That was my point. Assuming that black kids need the extra box implies that they (i.e. all of them, because "race") can't compete on a level playing field. That's what's called the bigotry of low expectations.

Giving them a box doesn't solve their problem. Instead, it institutionalizes the racism. For example, lowering test score requirements may help them get through college, but it won't help them find better jobs. On the contrary, their achievements will be tainted. Employers will still prefer applicants who scored high without a helping hand. Unless of course you go full socialist and impose racial quotas in employment by law, regardless of merit. And that is when talented people will leave your country and try their luck elsewhere.

Rebecca HailIt's less giving people boxes to stand on and more filling the hole that was dug underneath their feet in the past.

But thinking in terms of boxes and holes about this is stupid, these are complex socio-economic issues and seeing them being boiled down to analogies about boxes and "Math is racist" is just embarrassing.

M. LehmanPeople who have faced discrimination:"Systematic racism is a massive problem and has gone on for far too long. I myself have personally dealt with it. Also, here is a century of sociological data to support this claim. Platitudes alone will never, ever solve this problem."

Peoole who have not faced discrimination: "tHe rEaL rAcIsts aRe pEoPle like U!!"

Synthya Wylder

M. LehmanPeople who have faced discrimination:"Systematic racism is a massive problem and has gone on for far too long. I myself have personally dealt with it. Also, here is a century of sociological data to support this claim. Platitudes alone will never, ever solve this problem."

Peoole who have not faced discrimination: "tHe rEaL rAcIsts aRe pEoPle like U!!"

I have faced & suffered discrimination on a number of points.

But, I avoided clamoring for the gov't & society to pull me up.

I pulled myself up, despite the additional challenges, & with no help from either gov't or society.

I never liked the strings & stigma that always come attached.

Rebecca Hail

Synthya Wylder

M. LehmanPeople who have faced discrimination:"Systematic racism is a massive problem and has gone on for far too long. I myself have personally dealt with it. Also, here is a century of sociological data to support this claim. Platitudes alone will never, ever solve this problem."

Peoole who have not faced discrimination: "tHe rEaL rAcIsts aRe pEoPle like U!!"

I have faced & suffered discrimination on a number of points.

But, I avoided clamoring for the gov't & society to pull me up.

I pulled myself up, despite the additional challenges, & with no help from either gov't or society.

I never liked the strings & stigma that always come attached.

That's cool and all, but that is exactly what state and society are for. (Obligatory: That's not always what states do and what they're used for, but these are the basic reasons why larger collectives were formed in the first place.)

Synthya Wylder

M. LehmanPeople who have faced discrimination:"Systematic racism is a massive problem and has gone on for far too long. I myself have personally dealt with it. Also, here is a century of sociological data to support this claim. Platitudes alone will never, ever solve this problem."

Peoole who have not faced discrimination: "tHe rEaL rAcIsts aRe pEoPle like U!!"

I have faced & suffered discrimination on a number of points.

But, I avoided clamoring for the gov't & society to pull me up.

I pulled myself up, despite the additional challenges, & with no help from either gov't or society.

I never liked the strings & stigma that always come attached.

Synthya Wylder

Rebecca Hail

Synthya Wylder


I have faced & suffered discrimination on a number of points.

But, I avoided clamoring for the gov't & society to pull me up.

I pulled myself up, despite the additional challenges, & with no help from either gov't or society.

I never liked the strings & stigma that always come attached.

That's cool and all, but that is exactly what state and society are for. (Obligatory: That's not always what states do and what they're used for, but these are the basic reasons why larger collectives were formed in the first place.)

I don't agree, but I suppose that I can attribute our differences of opinion in that regard to our respective countries & societies.