Offtopic

Silver Taffer
22 Apr 2021, 11:42am
Amata LireinSometimes you cannot help but wonder how teachers get their jobs


Good grief!
Here in the UK, many years back, my son had maths homework and asked for our help. It was addition and we showed him how to add up and subtract numbers in columns.
His homework was marked as wrong.
His answers were correct but he had not added the numbers in line, which was the new doctrine introduced since our days in school!

In my view this teaches children that only one method of reaching a correct conclusion is allowable. I wonder how many of our most important mathematical and scientific discoveries would have been made if everyone had thought along such rigid lines?
Amata Lirein
22 Apr 2021, 12:46pm
Silver Taffer
Amata LireinSometimes you cannot help but wonder how teachers get their jobs



Good grief!
Here in the UK, many years back, my son had maths homework and asked for our help. It was addition and we showed him how to add up and subtract numbers in columns.
His homework was marked as wrong.
His answers were correct but he had not added the numbers in line, which was the new doctrine introduced since our days in school!

In my view this teaches children that only one method of reaching a correct conclusion is allowable. I wonder how many of our most important mathematical and scientific discoveries would have been made if everyone had thought along such rigid lines?


My sister once had a chemical teacher who asked in a test to name two forms in which carbon can occur naturally. The teacher wanted them to answer "coal" and "graphite". My sister answered "coal" and "diamond". According to the teacher "diamond" was a wrong answer as diamonds are not black and brittle...
Sappho
22 Apr 2021, 12:57pm
Repeating examples of "indoctrinating" rather than "teaching".
Amata Lirein
22 Apr 2021, 1:00pm
The problem with today's teachers is that most of them just copy-paste tests from some book and afterwards just compare the results with the contents of the solution pages instead, no longer relying on their own knowledge to grade them...
Silver Taffer
22 Apr 2021, 1:01pm
SapphoRepeating examples of "indoctrinating" rather than "teaching".


Exactly. Otherwise, stifling originality and enterprise.
Teaching should be a means to an end, not vice-versa!
Burstar
22 Apr 2021, 1:44pm
Ok, lot of teacher hate going on here by a bunch of people that wouldn't be able to write it without said teachers.

Sometimes knowing the right answer is less important than understanding how to be sure of it when it is unknown. Education for decades now has taken a systematic approach (and the particular system changes as research grows) that builds on previous lessons to make learning future ones easier. For example, the point of a test might be to ensure the student grasps the idea of 4 groups of 5 subgroups to make learning division the following week easier.

NDT has an excellent talking point on this. I don't recall what video it was, but it boils down to this: Interviewer asks two prospects how tall the building they are in is. One prospect happened to research the building specs and immediately answers "63.5 meters". The other prospect says "I don't know offhand, but I can calculate it using the length of its shadow vs my own if you give me 5 minutes". Which should the interviewer hire?

To cap this off, I'll just point out most of the anecdotal evidence people have provided were almost all at levels where critical thinking is really beyond the brain development of the students who would be taking those tests. That said, some teachers are terribad no doubt about it.

edited because Silver Taffer is right about my poor choice of wording.

Last edit: 22 Apr 2021, 6:15pm
Synthya Wylder
22 Apr 2021, 3:18pm
@Burstar, I think that you have confirmed the points & examples made above by others.

I also wish to point out (from one who actually works in my school district with 5 to 10-year-olds) that for the most part, it's not so much the teachers themselves, but the school system & the State that oversees them (the districts) & dictates as to what, & even more specifically, how things are taught; there are many instances in life where there are alternatives in the way solutions to problems are arrived, & other correct answers than merely the ones the teacher had in mind, such as the examples made by Silver Taffer & Amata.

This is, however, not only a recent issue; I myself have experienced similar things & I'm in my early 60s.

For example, in my 3rd grade, the class was working on solving simple addition & subtraction equations, & the importance of the order of number placement in the equation. In addition, ofc, it doesn't matter, but in subtraction it does, but that doesn't take into account the possibility of negative number answers, something that my teacher could have made use of when she tried to point out that in subtraction, one couldn't place the smaller number above a larger one (Yes, Taffer, we also used a vertically-arranged method 'back in the day').

She asked the class how would we be able to solve such an equation? Ofc, I, always the rebel, shot my hand up & pointed out the answer would be a negative number & the teacher got quite upset with me, exclaiming that we hadn't gotten to the concept of negative numbers yet.

That also shows an example of how 'the System' hadn't (& maybe doesn't, even today) take into account that some students have more abiliy to advance faster than others, & have more capability to understand more advanced concepts than others, yet find themselves frustrated by being limited to the lowest common denominator. Such children often express that with conduct & misbehavioral issues, & may even be labelled as 'learning-disabled'.

There also times when it's the teachers themselves who are more the cause of the problem, than the students.

I can give an example of that, but I think that I've rambled on long enough.

I've always advocated for alternatives to public education (i.e., Private, Charter, Parochial & Home-Schooling), which has consistently been hampered by administrative bureaucracy & politics. Those alternatives have a statistical history (at least here in the USA) of out-performing the public education system & catering to what's best for the students, not the dogma of the State.
Sappho
22 Apr 2021, 3:50pm
There are advantages to being programmed, but not for humans, & especially, not human children.
Burstar
22 Apr 2021, 5:20pm
SapphoThere are advantages to being programmed, but not for humans, & especially, not human children.


It's not necessarily 'being programmed'. It's supposed to be teaching in a step by step way. The problem is the steps are different now than what were used before. It's not that they don't want the student to learn something different, it's that they want to be sure they learnt what they should have for their level. But this 'we don't need know edumacation" is almost certainly by those that at the very least don't understand the reasoning behind the system. I feel like the lack of communication on this is where the problem is. Unfortunately the teacher is almost certainly overburdened and doesn't have the time to write the reasoning behind getting an 'f' for 5x4=20, or would prefer the student and/or parents talk to them about it directly so they can make sure it is understood. Really, instead of trying to teach the child YOUR way, you should be looking at what the book says and teach that, but I feel like this isn't explained to parents well at all.

The reality is that modern schooling will teach students far more than us old folks learnt, much faster, and generally better. Yes outliers on either side of the graph need different approaches but news flash your kid is, statistically speaking, not an outlier and the system should be optimized for the majority it can apply to. Special programs for the others should be in place and if they aren't THAT is a major failing.

I agree that politics harms education but good luck with fixing that when it's the politicians that set it up.
Silver Taffer
22 Apr 2021, 5:30pm
Burstar That said, some teachers are idiots no doubt about it.


That is roughly my point! I would fall short of calling them ‘idiots’, exactly, but certainly pedantic or misguided.

No teacher hate from me. I have every respect for the abilities for the vast majority of teachers and their commitment in the face of many difficulties.
User308550
22 Apr 2021, 6:16pm
The purpose of the education system isn't to educate. The public doesn't need education. The purpose is to indoctrinate and to train. Society requires obedient workers that are just barely smart enough to operate the machines and consume. If you mistakenly create more than that, you face an avalanche of requests for ever increasing living standards which comes out of the pockets of the wealthy. If you create less than that, your society collapses. It's a balancing act. If you're thinking, "wow that's psychopathic" you can thank the billionaire investor that relayed it to me in a boardroom back in the early 2000's.
Sakashiro
22 Apr 2021, 7:53pm
Amata LireinSometimes you cannot help but wonder how teachers get their jobs

[img=1200x421]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EzeRDj3XMAA6_v5?format=jpg[/img]

Translation: "Write down the respective addition and multiplication."

Red "f" = "falsch" = "wrong"

Never trust authorities!

It's one of the most valuable lessons being taught at schools.
Knightwolf 1785
22 Apr 2021, 9:34pm
Sakashiro
22 Apr 2021, 9:46pm
Knightwolf 1785
22 Apr 2021, 9:49pm
Did you see the ship hologram? I've got a picture of Rain coming that has her a pilot seat of her Python. I'll share that when I get it.

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