Offtopic

Burstar
02 Sep 2021, 8:39am
Grecale80Really why people waste so much time and energy hating something?

Well I for one liked the reboot movies. The only thing that really irked me was the Federation literally giving their flagship over to a bunch of cadets. Reality: an entire force of meritocracy based ranking told 'nah, just be in the right place at the wrong time and all your dreams will come true f your previous efforts and of those around you'.

As for Discovery. The CG, artistry, acting and directing were all well above my expectations. The writing? OMG awful. It went against every appealing thing that ST represented. A futuristic setting to foster discussion on possibly controversial ideas, while expressing hope for the future, using a government that is imperfect but has the right ideals. Instead we got forced fed constant misery with the occasional dollap of soapboxing and (at the time) slaps in the face to canon. They did eventually turn it around but that first season was rough. Add to that the proof it was still possible to perfectly encapsulate what ST was about, without even relying on the franchise, via a show right next to it (The Orville) and it just seemed like STD (another convenient coincidence, why not just call it ST:Cancer? ) was an intentional slap to the face to the fans.

So, the reason for 'so much hate': to some it seemed to be so bad it was an intentional assault on their love. Whether they are correct is besides the point.
Grecale80
02 Sep 2021, 8:53am
Burstar
Grecale80Really why people waste so much time and energy hating something?


Well I for one liked the reboot movies. The only thing that really irked me was the Federation literally giving their flagship over to a bunch of cadets. Reality: an entire force of meritocracy based ranking told 'nah, just be in the right place at the wrong time and all your dreams will come true f your previous efforts and of those around you'.

As for Discovery. The CG, artistry, acting and directing were all well above my expectations. The writing? OMG awful. It went against every appealing thing that ST represented. A futuristic setting to foster discussion on possibly controversial ideas, while expressing hope for the future, using a government that is imperfect but has the right ideals. Instead we got forced fed constant misery with the occasional dollap of soapboxing and (at the time) slaps in the face to canon. They did eventually turn it around but that first season was rough. Add to that the proof it was still possible to perfectly encapsulate what ST was about, without even relying on the franchise, via a show right next to it (The Orville) and it just seemed like STD (another convenient coincidence, why not just call it ST:Cancer? ) was an intentional slap to the face to the fans.

So, the reason for 'so much hate': to some it seemed to be so bad it was an intentional assault on their love. Whether they are correct is besides the point.


But you are making a constructive debate about the script, is quite different about the classic "shitstorm" we are sadly used to see on internet. Your way of talk and criticize too is absolutly respectful and acceptable. Shitstorm no. Is pointless. Is just a match between monkeys for estabilish who scream louder and higher.

Someone posted the trailer of the last update of NMS in previous page: who don't remember the shitstorm Hello Games faced after the release of the game five years ago? And now look: still at work on the game making free update after free update.

In any case we must admit: we Trek Fans are more "purist" than Star Wars fans. And for me is ok
Burstar
02 Sep 2021, 9:08am
Grecale80 In any case we must admit: we Trek Fans are more "purist" than Star Wars fans. And for me is ok


If by "Purist" you mean 'have not had to stomach as much BS as SW fans' then I can agree with you.

Last edit: 02 Sep 2021, 6:12pm
Grecale80
02 Sep 2021, 9:19am
Burstar
Grecale80 In any case we must admit: we Trek Fans are more "purist" than Star Wars fans. And for me is ok



If by "Purist" you mean 'have not had to stomach as much BS as SW fans' than I can agree with you.


We pay a lot of much attention to what is canonical, and about the internal coherence of the franchise, in terms of chronological coherence between any single iteration or spin off in the ST Universe.
Amata Lirein
02 Sep 2021, 3:48pm
Grecale80
Amata LireinOne of the few scenes on which those who loved AND those who hated this movie could agree on that it was pure awesomesauce...



(And before you ask: I loved it. )



Im not the most honest guys speaking about Star Trek because im really Trekkers inside, but i always asked why so much hate against the reboot (and Discovery too)

Really why people waste so much time and energy hating something?


TBH I partially shared the hate for DSC, but not for the storytelling or the "visual reboot" (as the producers called it), but for the reeeaaally aweful redesign of the Klingons in season 1. Thankfully they turned it down a notch or two in season 2 and handwaved their sudden baldness away as some fashion trend. Bonus points were earned for the really awesome modernizations of the classic Constitution- and D7-class cruisers

As for the "visual reboot" in general: I didn't mind. It's not the 1960s anymore after all, and Trek is no longer an odd little sci-fi show struggling with its extremly limited budget but a multi-million dollar franchise. I think I would have actually called them out if the sets had looked like hastly cobbled together plywood panels with some Fisher-Price crystals as buttons to push...
Amata Lirein
02 Sep 2021, 4:04pm
Burstar
Grecale80Really why people waste so much time and energy hating something?


Well I for one liked the reboot movies. The only thing that really irked me was the Federation literally giving their flagship over to a bunch of cadets. Reality: an entire force of meritocracy based ranking told 'nah, just be in the right place at the wrong time and all your dreams will come true f your previous efforts and of those around you'.

As for Discovery. The CG, artistry, acting and directing were all well above my expectations. The writing? OMG awful. It went against every appealing thing that ST represented. A futuristic setting to foster discussion on possibly controversial ideas, while expressing hope for the future, using a government that is imperfect but has the right ideals. Instead we got forced fed constant misery with the occasional dollap of soapboxing and (at the time) slaps in the face to canon. They did eventually turn it around but that first season was rough. Add to that the proof it was still possible to perfectly encapsulate what ST was about, without even relying on the franchise, via a show right next to it (The Orville) and it just seemed like STD (another convenient coincidence, why not just call it ST:Cancer? ) was an intentional slap to the face to the fans.

So, the reason for 'so much hate': to some it seemed to be so bad it was an intentional assault on their love. Whether they are correct is besides the point.


Just as a reminder: All Trek series struggled to find their footing. Even the first 1 and a half seasons of the universally beloved TNG were mostly one cringefest after another (Just try to remember the episodes around the Edo God, Captain Okoda(?) and the "drunk virus" which had the costume linked below (starting at 1:10) as its only redeeming quality?). DS9 only became coherent when the Dominion was introduced. Hell, ENT even took way too long to find its bearings, IMO only the later half of Season 3 and most importantly the wonderful Season 4 redeemed that series (too bad it was too little too late).

Knightwolf 1785
02 Sep 2021, 4:13pm
Sometimes the fun part of watching any of the shows was seeing how they got their footing.
Burstar
02 Sep 2021, 6:42pm
Amata Lirein Just as a reminder: All Trek series struggled to find their footing. Even the first 1 and a half seasons of the universally beloved TNG were mostly one cringefest after another (Just try to remember the episodes around the Edo God, Captain Okoda(?) and the "drunk virus" which had the costume linked below (starting at 1:10) as its only redeeming quality?). DS9 only became coherent when the Dominion was introduced. Hell, ENT even took way too long to find its bearings, IMO only the later half of Season 3 and most importantly the wonderful Season 4 redeemed that series (too bad it was too little too late)


Yeah there does seem to be a trend with weak first seasons where ST is concerned although I'd argue that Enterprise, Voyager and DS9's first seasons weren't nearly so distinctly bad when compared to the rest of their respective seasons. While they all clearly needed to find their footing so to speak, DS9's first was pretty good, Voyager's was as bad as the rest of the series so didn't stand out to me, and Enterprise was probably the best opening season comparatively speaking. ST:TNG and ST:D? Yeesh I'm honestly surprised (and glad) that both those series survived their poor first impressions.

I think the writers just need to understand not everything needs to be an existential crisis or crazy dark to be interesting. My biggest turn offs are when it becomes a comic book story where the heroes need to stop the baddies from ending all life in the galaxy as we know it. This gets particularly bad when it's done way too soon in the story. Enterprise's 'Time war' and Xindi (where tf did they go and why haven't we heard of them ever again?) were my least favourite parts of that series. This seems to be a crutch that every ST show has had since TNG. Sure, some of them were very good (Wolf 359+, TNG's finale, the Changeling War and Pah Wraiths arc come to mind) but it gets tiring. Why can't we just have pleasant episodic narratives with a moral like we used to? Something I can sit down and enjoy randomly with my kids without explaining why the previously friendly Androids are now tearing apart their colleagues into pieces. I want my family show back dammit!

Last edit: 02 Sep 2021, 8:58pm
Grecale80
02 Sep 2021, 8:43pm
I really enjoy to have found other trekkers brothers here. Anyway Battle in the Mutara Nebula is still unreachble in beauty
LordPsymon
03 Sep 2021, 12:46am
Grecale80 Really why people waste so much time and energy hating something?


God, how dare people have any form of negative feelings toward something?
Amata Lirein
03 Sep 2021, 2:22am
LordPsymon
Grecale80 Really why people waste so much time and energy hating something?



God, how dare people have any form of negative feelings toward something?


There is a difference between pointing out legit criticism and hating on something just because. Take Discovery for example. It's official 3-letter abbreviation is "DSC". It is my experience though that those who are hating on the series use "STD" instead on purpose to delegitimize anyone who actually enjoys the show. Several of them even outright accused me that I must enjoy STDs of all kinds since I enjoyed the show for the most part since season 1.
Aleksander Majjam
03 Sep 2021, 5:59am
You kinda' smell..
Like a baka..
Eren Yeager..
Burstar
03 Sep 2021, 6:52am
Amata Lirein There is a difference between pointing out legit criticism and hating on something just because. Take Discovery for example. It's official 3-letter abbreviation is "DSC". It is my experience though that those who are hating on the series use "STD" instead on purpose to delegitimize anyone who actually enjoys the show. Several of them even outright accused me that I must enjoy STDs of all kinds since I enjoyed the show for the most part since season 1.


That's not true. I refer to ST:D as such for three reasons:
1) It's low hanging fruit that should have been foreseen by the creators before it was announced/released and so is itself valid criticism of how little thought went into the show at start,
2) I do not recognize any body that declares they control the official way to refer to it in conversation,
3) It is common parlance that follows the abbreviating convention of its predecessors and is even used in official product serial numbers (search "100206-0010-ST-D-CUS")

Can it be used to insult? Sure if you have thin skin. Doesn't mean it definitely is one though.
Dirnivir
03 Sep 2021, 7:57am
overwatch is such a lovely game with such nice people. not toxic at all.
Amata Lirein
03 Sep 2021, 9:31am
Burstar3) It is common parlance that follows the abbreviating convention of its predecessors and is even used in official product serial numbers (search "100206-0010-ST-D-CUS")


Actually the official abbreviations are TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT and DSC.

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