Elite: Odyssey

Light-Hawk
02 Aug 2021, 4:07pm
Sakashiro
Light-HawkI do fly IRL


But do you also shoot IRL?

I have roll and pitch on my mouse, but I know if I ever want to be competitive with fixed weapons in PvP, I'll have to learn yaw/pitch.



Shoot IRL? Only recreationally at a local range.

Honestly yaw/pitch with mouse makes sense. You are basically moving an in game version of a mouse cursor. I'd be inclined to believe that the weird joystick configurations stem from people trying to control the reticle with the joystick as opposed to controlling the aircraft/spacecraft with the joystick. Just a different frame of reference really.
Kurakil
02 Aug 2021, 9:49pm
I believe real fighter aircraft have the joystick for roll/pitch because the joystick is the most sensitive control and roll/pitch have the largest control surfaces, so you don't want to lose control or rip your plane apart. Yaw adjustments are made with smaller control surfaces and are typically very minor by comparison. Because roll/pitch have larger control surfaces, you can make tighter/quicker turns and it is easier for the human body to handle g-forces if being pushed back into your seat rather than to the side. Correct me if I am wrong.
I personally have my joystick for roll/pitch and the yaw is mapped to a hat. I'm betting my control mappings are nothing like real life fighters but they are optimized for me for this game given the options available. Thankfully I have a keyboard as well otherwise there are just too many things to map... and most of my keyboard is mapped too. You know, I miss the days of a d-pad and just a few buttons.
Aunty Sledge
03 Aug 2021, 12:13am
KurakilI believe real fighter aircraft have the joystick for roll/pitch because the joystick is the most sensitive control and roll/pitch have the largest control surfaces, so you don't want to lose control or rip your plane apart. Yaw adjustments are made with smaller control surfaces and are typically very minor by comparison. Because roll/pitch have larger control surfaces, you can make tighter/quicker turns and it is easier for the human body to handle g-forces if being pushed back into your seat rather than to the side. Correct me if I am wrong.
I personally have my joystick for roll/pitch and the yaw is mapped to a hat. I'm betting my control mappings are nothing like real life fighters but they are optimized for me for this game given the options available. Thankfully I have a keyboard as well otherwise there are just too many things to map... and most of my keyboard is mapped too. You know, I miss the days of a d-pad and just a few buttons.


The controls are as old as planes themselves. Roll/pitch is handled with hand controls, and yaw is handled by the rudder (foot) pedals.

You can do a heck of a lot of flying without yaw, there is a lot of space up there to point where you want to go, the closer you get to the ground the more the rudders are used.

Yaw doesn't have to be minor at all, the only minor changes are things like trim tabs.
Light-Hawk
03 Aug 2021, 3:03am
The joystick is made to directly mimic the movement of the aircraft/spacecraft.
Pitch: Want plane to lean forward/backward? Lean joystick forward/backward.
Roll: Want plane to lean right/left? Lean joystick right/left.
Yaw is controlled by rudder pedals and it's also simple.
Want plane to point right? Press right. Point left? Press left.

Others also compare a joystick to mimicking how your head and neck move. Which also explains using twist for yaw control.
Kurakil
03 Aug 2021, 3:10am
Light-HawkThe joystick is made to directly mimic the movement of the aircraft/spacecraft.
Pitch: Want plane to lean forward/backward? Lean joystick forward/backward.
Roll: Want plane to lean right/left? Lean joystick right/left.
Yaw is controlled by rudder pedals and it's also simple.
Want plane to point right? Press right. Point left? Press left.

Others also compare a joystick to mimicking how your head and neck move. Which also explains using twist for yaw control.

Makes sense to me.
Gatimũ Kamau
03 Aug 2021, 5:35am
Aleksander Majjam
Gatimũ KamauAnyone know the proposed release date for Odyssey on PS4? I'm hoping to start my on-foot adventures soon.



It's been delayed indefinitely. No dates. It's the end of ED on consoles, IMO. Or at least last generation Xbox/PS4 consoles.


That's.........distressing news. I truly hope that's not the case. I don't think I'd be able to enjoy the game anymore if I'm being gated out of an entire section/side of gameplay that's being openly enjoyed by everyone else. And that would be really shortsighted and damaging to the thousands who are members of the console community.
Light-Hawk
03 Aug 2021, 6:22am
Gatimũ KamauThat's.........distressing news. I truly hope that's not the case. I don't think I'd be able to enjoy the game anymore if I'm being gated out of an entire section/side of gameplay that's being openly enjoyed by everyone else. And that would be really shortsighted and damaging to the thousands who are members of the console community.


"Being openly enjoyed" is relative. Based on player numbers from Steam, Elite on PC is down to the player count it had back in 2014. It hasn't been as low as it is now since well before Horizons released. It was extremely buggy, lots of disconnects, terrible optimization, etc... It literally went from an alpha straight to launch. Skipping beta testing all together. This means we went from their closed Alpha test world to a near full integration with the Elite universe. They didn't even test fleet carriers in the Alpha. Only players who bought Odyssey on PC have access to any of its content as those who did not buy it are still playing the same Horizons version as the console players have access to. You could look at it as a blessing in disguise as it means you haven't spent the money on it yet. And in its current state, you'd probably feel ripped off it it was pushed on console right now. While Odyssey has "officially launched," it runs much more like the beta test it should have been in the first place. You do not want it pushed in it's present state any time soon. The added gameplay of Odyssey is extremely "meh" if you have any experience with any other FPS title in the last 20 years. The on foot aspect has an arguably worse engineering grind than the ships do. A lot of, if not the majority of players on PC right now are sticking to Horizons until Odyssey is fixed. FDev was going to try and push the console release before the end of this year but is has been having so many issues on PC they have to focus on fixing what was released before they can work on getting it to work smoothly with consoles. I doubt Microsoft and Sony would even authorize it on their platforms in the games present state, least it turn into another Cyberpunk scenario.

Last edit: 03 Aug 2021, 6:30am
Episparh
03 Aug 2021, 10:45am
Gatimũ Kamau

... that's being openly enjoyed by everyone else.


Your opinion on the matter is highly subjective. The game is almost 3 months after launch and was able to drive long term players away with unprecedented pace due to poor performance, infinite number of bugs and half thought design decisions around new game play and changes to existing game.

But then what you have to enjoy realy:
1. FPS combat (for which you need to spend even more time for grinding engineering unlocks and upgrades)
2. Atmospheric landing ( which in essence is gradient change of colors)
3. Genetic sampling game play - extremely boring activity involving running on the planet surfaces in hope to find 3 different patches of bacteria.
4. New elite rankings from 1 - 5... Yay, even more grind
5. Different planet tech. Some think it is better, some worse. IMO, it is ruined old surface POIs, non-EDO biology and geology sites.
6. Changes in flight model and SRV handling.
7. More strain to the eyes due to poorly implemented lighting.
8. New UI/UX is terrible and less intuitive.
9. Random bugs and crashes that can ruin your game session at any time.
10. Poor frame per second which cause a beast of a PC to give you just a single digit frames per second making the game looking as slide show.

... There are bunch of other stuff but in essence the new foot stuff have no meaningful connection to existing game.

Believe me, you are not missing anything. After I've spent like 90 days struggling with all of the above my hours in elite dropped to 20-30% of what it was before alpha. All this is killing my desire to play the game and I find myself spending more of my gaming time somewhere else.
Light-Hawk
03 Aug 2021, 11:08am
EpisparhBelieve me, you are not missing anything. After I've spent like 90 days struggling with all of the above my hours in elite dropped to 20-30% of what it was before alpha. All this is killing my desire to play the game and I find myself spending more of my gaming time somewhere else.


I'd agree with most of what you posted above. I started playing Star Citizen after Odyssey's botched release. I have over 1k hours in Elite. Not even 50 hours in SC yet and I have already given more money to it than Elite. And I don't regret it. As buggy of an Alpha SC is, it's still really impressive overall and it is enjoyable. In the past I'd have told Frontier to shut up and take my money over Elite. Not anymore. Maybe if they offer up a Majestic but even then I don't know anymore.
Burstar
03 Aug 2021, 1:08pm
Light-Hawk
Burstar
KalenarThis setup with the rudders as roll is what I eventually went with. I tried the 'normal' rudder to yaw setup, but with Elite in particular, the fine adjustments for aiming are done much easier with yaw on the j/s. Because you're in space with lift not being a thing this setup is just far superior for any player that isn't literally a monkey


Guess I'm a monkey then. I do fly IRL so I'll be keeping controls mapped to match as such. Any different just feels wrong to me.



Light-Hawk Honestly yaw/pitch with mouse makes sense. You are basically moving an in game version of a mouse cursor. I'd be inclined to believe that the weird joystick configurations stem from people trying to control the reticle with the joystick as opposed to controlling the aircraft/spacecraft with the joystick. Just a different frame of reference really.


It's not 'just a different frame of reference'. As you are clearly aware, the joystick (and your hands that control it) are far more sensitive than rudder pedals. With no historical, mechanical, or physics concerns yaw on the j/s makes sense for the same reason as mouse. The important fine adjustments needed for aiming precisely for things like Railgunning powerplants or Gaussing hearts are much easier to do with this set up. I'm not saying I don't understand being comfortable with the classical setup. I clearly stated that, being a flightsim enthusiast myself, I went with the classic setup initially too. Furthermore, if you are flying IRL there is actually a strong case for not muddying up your muscle memory by changing to this alternative control configuration for safety reasons.

What I am saying is that, regardless of your personal preference or reasons, in Elite keeping yaw on your rudder pedals is playing with a handicap. This is a statement of fact regarding the game's unique flight design characteristics, and that we don't have prehensile feet like monkeys do, not one of judgement.

(side note, this is why I get hostile sometimes. the mental gymnastics people do, particularly by projecting judgement, to save face when they obviously know the truth of the situation is to me at best disappointing)
Light-Hawk
03 Aug 2021, 1:33pm
BurstarWhat I am saying is that, regardless of your personal preference or reasons, in Elite keeping yaw on your rudder pedals is playing with a handicap. This is a statement of fact regarding the game's unique flight design characteristics, and that we don't have prehensile feet like monkeys do, not one of judgement.

(side note, this is why I get hostile sometimes. the mental gymnastics people do, particularly by projecting judgement, to save face when they obviously know the truth of the situation is to me at best disappointing)


I'm not so sure I'm tracking your thought process anymore... I agree that trying to use rudder pedals in Elite is a handicap. I was never arguing against that. It's why I have the Z-axis (twist) on the joystick bound to yaw. My joystick still has pitch/roll on the Y/X axis' as well. Virtually all movements can be done by a joystick and much more easily so. I'm not saying otherwise. I'm with you on that part.

As for that last part, I wasn't picking up any hostilities from you. Also wasn't trying to save face for anything. My whole angle on the topic was just coming from being confused as to why people had their joysticks setup differently. It is supposed to mimic how the craft moves. So I was simply thrown off by the concept of players changing their configurations so that a joysticks Z-axis controls the crafts X-axis and was trying to understand why they do this.
Burstar
03 Aug 2021, 2:18pm
Light-Hawk I'm not so sure I'm tracking your thought process anymore... I agree that trying to use rudder pedals in Elite is a handicap. I was never arguing against that. It's why I have the Z-axis (twist) on the joystick bound to yaw. My joystick still has pitch/roll on the Y/X axis' as well. Virtually all movements can be done by a joystick and much more easily so. I'm not saying otherwise. I'm with you on that part.


Being an IRL pilot I thought you were arguing rudder pedals (because that is what you're used to right?) were the better yaw setup for Elite specifically as well as generally. Not all joysticks have a twist function, particularly the expensive ones that imitate IRL flight controllers, so in that situation you need to bind yaw to something and it's better to bind the yaw to the j/s and the roll to 'something else' because in Elite roll is a gross movement function not involved in the fine adjustments used while aiming.

In the case of a j/s that has the twist function, then yes, keeping roll on the horizontal axis would be more comfortable for an experienced flier and the manual twisting axis is also sensitive enough for aiming purposes.

Edit:
Light-Hawk
SakashiroYaw/pitch on the mouse gives a huge advantage when using fixed weapons.



While I can understand this concept with a mouse, we are talking about joysticks. Several players in Star Citizen have their joysticks set so that leaning to the side with the stick causes the ship to yaw. As opposed to roll...... like how all aircraft/spacecraft operate in real life. Some even set their rudder pedals to control roll. I grew up around aircraft. This concept is completely foreign to me. If it works for you then power to you but it just doesn't seem right to me.

Really, you were never against using rudder pedals to roll?

Last edit: 03 Aug 2021, 2:29pm
Sakashiro
03 Aug 2021, 7:55pm
Only 29 MB. I wouldn't mind receiving small patches like that every day.
Light-Hawk
03 Aug 2021, 8:56pm
Burstar
Light-HawkIf it works for you then power to you but it just doesn't seem right to me.[/b]


Really, you were never against using rudder pedals to roll?


Not "against" it. There's a difference between "doesn't seem right" and "I'm against this." The former being that "I wouldn't do it. It doesn't seem like the proper thing but you do you and I'll do me." The later being "I'm against this, no one should ever do it. Do not do it ever." I'm all for people playing a game how they see fit so long as they are not harassing other people. So how people want to control their ships in game is entirely up to them. If it works for them then more power to them. They just happen to be using methods that seem very strange to me personally as they defy convention. But again, if they so happen to prefer it, it is a game after all. If you're having fun, that's all that really matters. Someone could be flying with a guitar hero controller for all I care. I'd say that doesn't seem right at all but if that's how you want to play and it works for you, then keep doing you.

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