Elite: Odyssey

Burstar
20 Oct 2021, 9:19am
Sakashiro
ZEN IndustriesBut since carriers can be seen in both versions I decided to buy meta-alloys in settlement and put it on sale so people in Horizons can buy it with just a bit less profit at the end. But seems people like to be rude and start sending me PM's with strange contents.
So why should I lose my time doing boring job over and over? For fame? LOL


At least they noticed your carrier!

I find the commodity market feature of carriers largely useless, except as a tool to transfer credits between accounts. In theory a carrier offering to buy e.g. silver for 20,000 Cr right next to a station selling it for 4,000 Cr should see at least some business activity, but since interstellar travel is free and in many cases even faster than traveling within a system, players have no reason to trade locally, and NPCs do not trade at all. So the whole idea of distance trading where "the locals" load and unload your carrier for a share of the profit just doesn't work.


It isn't useless if the margins are big enough. NPCs do not interact with your FC's inventory so forget that. It's all about incentivizing players to do the transactions. Keeping this in mind you can see why, in your example, 16K profit isn't worth their time when most decent Trading returns start at 20k per destination. If someone's goal is to make their Market useful then facilitating mining or CGs is the ticket. Park your FC adjacent to known Platinum/Coremining locations and place buy orders for the ore >= 50% max sell price and rename it to something like 'phat l00tz for j00' or something that lets them know you're buying and open for business (bonus points for keeping tabs on your inventory and credits so you don't waste peoples time going to unfillable order Carriers. 'Those' people get ignored).

Once full, you can move to a system importing with high prices and either sell it manually or sell it with a profit margin >35k/t for the buyer and someone will empty it for you.
Sakashiro
20 Oct 2021, 10:10am
Have you ever loaded or unloaded someone else's carrier?

Have you ever mined in a place so far away that you needed someone else to haul the goods to the point of sale? I know some newbies did that, but only because they were literally abducted and thought they had no choice.
Light-Hawk
20 Oct 2021, 10:21am
SakashiroHave you ever loaded or unloaded someone else's carrier?

Have you ever mined in a place so far away that you needed someone else to haul the goods to the point of sale? I know some newbies did that, but only because they were literally abducted and thought they had no choice.


Only real example where loading/unloading a carrier and using it to transport goods to sell somewhere else actually works out is the booze cruise up to Rackham's Peak for when they go into a state of holiday. Lots of carriers make the trek up there to sell wine. That being said, the biggest reason carriers are needed is because you are transporting a lot of goods over 5300 LY's away and only carriers are capable of getting there. You get to a point where the nearest star system to jump to is over 400LYs away. Otherwise in the bubble, you are usually better off using regular ships so as to not need to wait for the carriers jump cycle.
Episparh
20 Oct 2021, 10:40am
SakashiroHave you ever loaded or unloaded someone else's carrier?

Have you ever mined in a place so far away that you needed someone else to haul the goods to the point of sale? I know some newbies did that, but only because they were literally abducted and thought they had no choice.


I've seen such collaboration during the hauling CG in Coalsack Nebula. People were actually organizing FC load/unload with the owner. It was visible even in the official forum thread about the CG, so you can actually go and check the archive.
Sakashiro
20 Oct 2021, 11:07am
I can see why it works in a CG where there are special rewards not available otherwise. The booze cruise trade also works because the best point of sale is off limits without a carrier, and the offer at Rackham's is so generous, you can buy above peak prices in the bubble and still make a profit.

But in normal trade, why would I share my profits with the owner of a carrier? Hyperjumps are free and add little overhead to supercruise and docking times.
Episparh
20 Oct 2021, 11:26am
In normal circumstances there is no point to use even your own carrier. The cases where FCs provide advantages are as follow:
1. Range is off limit for normal ships.
2. Too many jumps for loaded ships.
3. Too long super cruise distances.
4. Commodities with limited amount to buy once at a time.

Last edit: 20 Oct 2021, 11:44am
Artie
20 Oct 2021, 11:48am
Sakashiro But in normal trade, why would I share my profits with the owner of a carrier? Hyperjumps are free and add little overhead to supercruise and docking times.

Because of time - you can sacrifice some profit for almost no work on your end. When you set the commodities, their prices and locations right, you can have a profit basically just for a jump from one star system to another with no other work involved - other people will load and unload your carrier. For these people, it can be (once again, when the commodities and prices set right) also interesting - they do not need to travel far for a profit when there is a fleet carrier right in the same system which offers slightly worse prices, but in the long run they will make a bigger profit (they will save travelling time). Everybody wins there, it's just about finding the right balance. I've noticed multiple fleet carrier owners doing that before and it apparently worked (didn't check that lately, though).
Light-Hawk
20 Oct 2021, 11:51am
The Pilots Trade Network (PTN) seems to do a good job of utilizing their fleet carriers for hauling/trading. If you really want to get into it, they'd probably be a good group to get in contact with to learn more.
Sakashiro
20 Oct 2021, 11:56am
I find the idea with the passenger missions interesting. Buy multiple Belugas, fill them with Colonia tourists, haul them back and forth all at once, profit! Unlike cargo, the weight of the ships doesn't even leave a mark on the carrier's tritium consumption.
Aunty Sledge
20 Oct 2021, 12:19pm
SakashiroI find the idea with the passenger missions interesting. Buy multiple Belugas, fill them with Colonia tourists, haul them back and forth all at once, profit! Unlike cargo, the weight of the ships doesn't even leave a mark on the carrier's tritium consumption.


You can only fill a single ship per account, so unless you have multiple accounts it doesn't work.
Sakashiro
20 Oct 2021, 12:26pm
ArtieBecause of time - you can sacrifice some profit for almost no work on your end. When you set the commodities, their prices and locations right, you can have a profit basically just for a jump from one star system to another with no other work involved - other people will load and unload your carrier. For these people, it can be (once again, when the commodities and prices set right) also interesting - they do not need to travel far for a profit when there is a fleet carrier right in the same system which offers slightly worse prices, but in the long run they will make a bigger profit (they will save travelling time). Everybody wins there, it's just about finding the right balance. I've noticed multiple fleet carrier owners doing that before and it apparently worked (didn't check that lately, though).

The key question is: Will the time they save make up for the loss of profits? The only way I see to make this work is if a commodity sells high or buys low at a station far away from the main star. Think Hutton Orbital. In that case the roundtrip would take so long that the option to buy from or sell to a nearby carrier becomes attractive.

But in all other cases, I doubt you'll see goods transferred from or to your carrier even if you buy/sell at the galactic average price. Because players can easily do the entire haul themselves and won't need you as a man in the middle.
Sakashiro
20 Oct 2021, 12:31pm
Aunty Sledge
SakashiroI find the idea with the passenger missions interesting. Buy multiple Belugas, fill them with Colonia tourists, haul them back and forth all at once, profit! Unlike cargo, the weight of the ships doesn't even leave a mark on the carrier's tritium consumption.



You can only fill a single ship per account, so unless you have multiple accounts it doesn't work.

Another dream of riches dashed.
Light-Hawk
20 Oct 2021, 12:34pm
SakashiroAnother dream of riches dashed.


Technically there aren't any rules against having multiple accounts and playing them at the same time. Just saying.
Artie
20 Oct 2021, 12:52pm
Sakashiro
The key question is: Will the time they save make up for the loss of profits? The only way I see to make this work is if a commodity sells high or buys low at a station far away from the main star. Think Hutton Orbital. In that case the roundtrip would take so long that the option to buy from or sell to a nearby carrier becomes attractive.

But in all other cases, I doubt you'll see goods transferred from or to your carrier even if you buy/sell at the galactic average price. Because players can easily do the entire haul themselves and won't need you as a man in the middle.

Yes, with the right prices, it can. For example - you have a trade route A->B->A with a profit 20k per unit. Let's say you have a ship with 500 units of cargo capacity and you are able to make 4 runs in an hour, which is 40 millions credits of profit. With a fleet carrier nearby, which will provide just 17k of profit per unit, but you will be able to make 5 runs in an hour, your overall profit is 42.5 millions. Definitely interesting for the trader. When balanced on both ends (selling and buying the commodities), you as a fleet carrier owner can have a profit based on the price differences. In this example, not exactly large, but in sufficient quantities it still will be millions for "nothing". And this is just a conservative example - with the bigger commodity price differences on the market, with the more runs the seller/buyer is able to make per hour, the larger margin you can set and increase your profit quite significantly, while doing almost nothing and just sleeping in your bed.

Last edit: 20 Oct 2021, 1:03pm
Burstar
20 Oct 2021, 4:15pm
SakashiroHave you ever loaded or unloaded someone else's carrier?

Have you ever mined in a place so far away that you needed someone else to haul the goods to the point of sale? I know some newbies did that, but only because they were literally abducted and thought they had no choice.


Yes to both. When large ships have their hold full their jump range sucks and the number of jumps to good sell station becomes time wasting. As Artie has pointed out, there are obvious situations where mathematically the time involved is just not worth the increased profit. Back during the mining 'Happy Times' profit margins were so large you could put up buy orders for Painite/LTD's easily 150k under max sell price and know it would be filled that week. Admittedly, nowadays it's not so easy and will become less so with the glut of new competition.

Typical trade routes max out at 30k/t per round trip with few exceptions. If you are buying or selling anything for a difference of 30k/t or more better than the going price and are close to the relevant station, Trader's will be interested.

On a side note: another aspect to FC holds is that they don't count toward your rare good possession limit. Fill up that Carrier with 20k Lavian Brandy, make 1 jump and sell it for max profit. Unfortunately, it's still a lot of trips due to the ship hold cap...

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