Elite: Game talk

Silver Taffer
16 Nov 2017, 4:26pm
Luke3107In the interest of fairness though, maybe report back when you get interdicted by a fully engineered FDL and let us know the results of that too? Boosting away from an NPC and high-waking is probably the Elite equivalent of celebrating 1st place in the 50cc Grand Prix on Mario Kart...

I get this whole "Learn to High-Wake" business, it's good advice, but seriously, any Engineered combat ship, in the hands of someone remotely capable, can melt a trade/exploration vessel before the FDL Cooldown & Charge Up is completed. I get the impression many people forget to account for that.

Just some food for thought is all.


Fair comment. I have been interdicted only twice by Cmdr, both in beta as it happens during C+P testing. Heavily modded ship carrying fighters. The throttle down, submit, boost like feck and high wake in front of liberal chaff and heat sink scenario still worked
Luke3107
16 Nov 2017, 4:31pm
Show me a video of someone escaping a PvP Corvette in a trader Keelback or T-6 then get back to me. Don't get me wrong, Rinzlers advice is good, but it ain't perfect and doesn't cover all bases (For example "Deploy Chaff and hope you opponent is a Gimbal/Turret Scrub", the defensive equivalent to 'Spray and Pray', what if the attacker is indeed using fixed?).

That said, I'm just pointing out that you can tell a victim "Here's how to avoid it" but the PvPer will adapt to that and the cycle will continue.

I'll confess I'm very much on the fence with this entire debate. On the one hand, unwarranted PvP encounters are frustrating regardless of how good you are at evading or escaping them. On the other, I do think there should be more done to the game to help curb that frustration, for example the knowledge that your assailant isn't getting let off without meaningful consequence (For example, the much debated over C&P System).

After that though, this debate will just take on another form. Some people are never happy. Period. (Hell, I'm probably guilty of that myself...)

Silver Taffer
Luke3107In the interest of fairness though, maybe report back when you get interdicted by a fully engineered FDL and let us know the results of that too? Boosting away from an NPC and high-waking is probably the Elite equivalent of celebrating 1st place in the 50cc Grand Prix on Mario Kart...

I get this whole "Learn to High-Wake" business, it's good advice, but seriously, any Engineered combat ship, in the hands of someone remotely capable, can melt a trade/exploration vessel before the FDL Cooldown & Charge Up is completed. I get the impression many people forget to account for that.

Just some food for thought is all.
Fair comment. I have been interdicted only twice by Cmdr, both in beta as it happens during C+P testing. Heavily modded ship carrying fighters. The throttle down, submit, boost like feck and high wake in front of liberal chaff and heat sink scenario still worked

Don't get me wrong, it's an effective tactic for sure. The more time the attacker spends trying to get a bead on you, the less time he actually has one. But I stand by the fact that, in circumstances involving a small trader vs a large PvPer (even a Medium one), all it takes is a few seconds to render any defences useless. These are the sort of situations not often accounted for.

But I've said what I wanted to say anyway, beyond that, I don't think I've got anything meaningful to add so I'll leave it at that. o7

Last edit: 16 Nov 2017, 4:38pm
Ryan Murdoc
16 Nov 2017, 5:00pm


Cool vibes
User1355
16 Nov 2017, 6:16pm
For anyone wishing to make a meaningful and informed contribution to the great C & P debate, I strongly recommend participating in a trade CG and include the following scenarios...

  • Make a trade run in a suitable trading vessel
  • Pirate another player
  • Gank another player
Phelbore
16 Nov 2017, 6:28pm
Marra MorganFor anyone wishing to make a meaningful and informed contribution to the great C & P debate, I strongly recommend participating in a trade CG and include the following scenarios...

  • Make a trade run in a suitable trading vessel
  • Pirate another player
  • Gank another player


How would you define "suitable trading vessel"? Are we talking a shieldless cr/hr Cutter or a Type-9 with shields and countermeasures?
User1355
16 Nov 2017, 6:54pm
When I say "suitable", I mean having made some effort not to die. So anything cr/hr optimised is out.
JQ
16 Nov 2017, 6:58pm
Personally, if I had to throw my two cents in as to what is a "suitable trading vessel," I'd say a trade ship with shields, countermeasures, and even potentially some means of self defense. Call me what you will, but I don't have any sympathy for traders with no defenses getting destroyed. It's a harsh galaxy, and if you make yourself an easy meal just to maximize your profits, you have nobody to blame but yourself when you get eaten.
Daman
16 Nov 2017, 7:14pm
Luke3107Ss (For example "Deploy Chaff and hope you opponent is a Gimbal/Turret Scrub", the defensive equivalent to 'Spray and Pray', what if the attacker is indeed using fixed?).



exactly.

the script on the video even says "and just hope he is using gimbals"

So even this guys video comes down to "just hope"

Lol.

Professional gankers don't run with gimbals. thats the casual crowd. and even then.
And the guy making the video knows that fully well. Gimballed weapons don't even have the same dps as fixed, no one really dangerous to other players is going to be running gimballed.

The best advice was the one he gave but didn't follow - if you fear a known ganker in a system, and they start heading towards you - you can drop out of SC for a while. better to be wily before being interdicted.

Last edit: 16 Nov 2017, 7:21pm
Martind Forlon
16 Nov 2017, 7:49pm
But that ship on video was not engineered and survivability on places like CG is depending also on proper engineering and commander decisions:

  1. how much cargo space he is willing sacrifice to defences
  2. how much runs he want to do to reach destination (sometimes he may need to "repeat" run few times before is able reach destination
  3. if is given time good to do runs at all
  4. have I some mate to help me with distraction/scouting etc.

Thing is not one single hostile encounter, thing are multiple interdictions,  how much attackers is involved and what equipment they are using (and if they coordinate theirs attacks). Rinzler ofc knows well that his guide have limits, but imo what he is trying is, to show commanders how they can have a chance, and that there is the need to think how to increase your chances for survival.
User23543
16 Nov 2017, 7:50pm
The current CGs are rares, aren't they? Small ships that rely on silent running and heat sinks might be good. Did real well at one with a DBX spec'd like that hauling 16 tons at a time.
Martind Forlon
16 Nov 2017, 7:52pm
NFC PhistoThe current CGs are rares, aren't they? Small ships that rely on silent running and heat sinks might be good. Did real well at one with a DBX spec'd like that hauling 16 tons at a time.

Imo rares CGs are the best one and imo FD really should think how to give a chance for "success" to commanders with small ships, i.e. have commodity which is counted with multiplier and which can be delivered only small amounts. ... Atm on normal trading CG have chance win only ppl in cutters with enough free time and which are hauling ideally shieldless in PG or Solo.
Ryaustal
16 Nov 2017, 7:55pm
Martind Forlon
\

So wait... people actually use sidewinders to kamikaze trade ships in an attempt to get the station to blow them up?
Daman
16 Nov 2017, 7:57pm
Martind ForlonBut that ship on video was not engineered and survivability on places like CG is depending also on proper engineering and commander decisions:

  1. how much cargo space he is willing sacrifice to defences
  2. how much runs he want to do to reach destination (sometimes he may need to "repeat" run few times before is able reach destination
  3. if is given time good to do runs at all

Thing is not one single hostile encounter, thing are multiple interdictions,  how much attackers is involved and what equipment they are using (and if they coordinate theirs attacks). Rinzler ofc knows well that his guide have limits, but imo what he is trying is, to show commanders how they can have a chance, and that there is the need to think how to increase your chances for survival.


I have met several noobs at CGs - meaning they have no idea about most of these issues - or at least engineering. And I don't think CGs should be considered dangerous hotspots that you need to be engineered for etc. etc. It kind of goes against the spirit of many of the CGs.

Anyway - we can hope that most players don't go through being ganked in the manner we have been chatting about, even at the CG. It really depends on a number of factors- what time you are on, what instance, whether the ganksters find some proper competition at the CG who keep them occupied etc. etc.
Daman
16 Nov 2017, 7:57pm
Ryaustal
\

So wait... people actually use sidewinders to kamikaze trade ships in an attempt to get the station to blow them up?


And eagles.

Some of these guys do it again and again, hours on end, night after night

As i mentioned - this is probably the lowest form of "ganking" you can get - with ganking in this case just meaning trying your best to cause other people grief while playing a game

Last edit: 16 Nov 2017, 8:04pm

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