Elite: Game talk
04 Apr 2018, 12:16am
Hi. I do not usually post anything. It seems kind of needlessly confrontational, but this seems like a great idea to give the Community.
I was flying with some friends until recently trying to learn about the story of the game. In doing this we ended up in a situation that really doesn't make sense except as a development mistake. I think we all know development for Elite is very, very slow, but as often it is self-contradictory. This seems to be one of those things that is self-contradictory. Without discussion about it presenting it as a 'problem' to the developers, again, seems needlessly confrontational. No one likes to be told something is 'wrong' without being told as much how it could be right. So, first I'll say what I imagine is the problem and then say what I imagine is the solution. Please tell me what you think?
What I think is wrong:
Core Components & Optional Components got confused post-Horizons.
What I imagine is the solution:
The SRV, Standard Docking Computer, Advanced Discovery Scanner, and Detailed Surface Scanner are Core Game Components.
Therefore they should go in Core Ship Components.
Description of Reasoning:
Currently the way the game is set up disallows us from actually playing its content. Why did I pay money for Horizons if I punished for using its content?
The punishments:
Engineering jump-bonuses to a small ship means my Engineered jump range can be halved just because I equipped an SRV.
- This is punishing me for trying to access planets.
- Why is a game that is about space and landing on planets punishing me for trying to enjoy that?
Cargo Space is required for many Story Components and many Story Components (cargo) damage my ship:
- This is self-contradictory
- If I go exploring I went 2 AMFU as one AMFU repairs the other.
- Equiping 2 AMFU + an SRV maxes our the Optional Internals on most ships
- Equiping 2 AMFU + Shields + SRV + Cargo = Full Functionality in Exploration:
Again I am being punished for using most of the ships in the game despite that Engineering makes it otherwise possible to use most ships in the game for the Story.
Effectively Frontier has Designed Exploration and the Story in such a way that to interact with it is to be punished for doing so. This is true even in so much as Horizons itself punishes us for participating with Horizons (bringing an SRV) for all of the reasons above.
I'll expand on this as I suspect not many people want to discuss this as so many aspects of the game now need development. But as we approach Q3 of the year Frontier will be working more on Exploration content. It needs to be discussed. I'm not sure how to do that as it is clear Frontier is confused by the complexity of their own product.
Exploration Contradictions:
Example:
I made an Adder. I flew it to Beagle Point and back. There were many things that I needed to consider. I could not Bring an SRV as it prohibitively cuts into Jump Range and adds nothing to functionality. Instead I equipped a Mining Laser. It does not nearly cut into my jump range so much (I could stay above 40 Ly jumps). However, I still equipped Grade 5 Enhanced Thrusters to maintain a general in-orbit flight speed of 500 m/s +. This enables me to reasonably search for Geysers - with my eyes, because Frontier... well. It's been years. I have stopped expecting development to mean development where Frontier is concerned. I like Geysers. If I am going to find them I need a fast ship. Next I needed survivability. This means AMFU and mostly for landings - a shield. So that's it. Combined with a Fuel Scoop, ADS, and DSS I am now out of module space. Fun fact. Bringing the SRV would have made my jump range too short to go to make the final jump to Beagle Point. Not bringing the SRV made the trip faster, easier, more enjoyable, and actually possible by the ship itself.
Summary of Exploration Equipment:
- Adder
- G5 Enhanced Thrusters
- Mining Laser
- Fuel Scoop
- ADS
- DSS
- AMFU
- Shield
As the game becomes more and more complicated the demands as to what is " Core Gameplay " is changing.
- Horizons, to be worth having spent money on it, should allow us to get access to planets without punishing us.
- Not pay for access to the content was not optional, but to permit us access to it ( for Frontier ) is optional.
- Cargo is required to pick up Data Caches, Escape Pods, Thargoid stuffs, Guardian Stuffs, Black Boxes, and etc, but to even make an Exploration ship BE a fully functioning Exploration ship Cargo is not usually optional. Too many other practical concerns overstate the incidental utility of bringing it.
Therefore, Horizons, as far as I can tell has made Elite Dangerous self-contradictory all throughout it.
- This is even discussing that so far Beyond is fixing Elite into something like a premium product (something we paid for) instead of the many Free-to-Play and Cash-Shop features that have been most of the visible development for the last two years.
Things like the ADS are basically a Sensor Upgrade.
Things like the DSS are definitely a Sensor Upgrade.
- I learn nothing from the DSS that is utilitarian to me.
- the DSS does not tell me anything I cannot already know by turning the music on in the game and listening to the planets, use the hologram, or my own common sense
- the DSS does not tell me where to find static POI and POI vanish when approached making the ships sensors pointless when they should be getting more accurate.
(Kind of like how I use iron and nickle to refill oxygen. Totally makes sense. So ya, please don't go on about how this these things are something to do with 'realism'. Whatever remained of 'realmism' died with the Type-10 or the Beluga. This is game. A game very confused about what is and what it is going to be.)
Things like the Standard Docking Computer should not require 2 tons of Cargo Space. Our cellphones can already do everything required to dock these spaceships. The entire module should be removed from the game and be made into a toggle option in the Button 4 Window.
So, these are my opinions. If you were to make the game less punishing and more respectful of our money what would you do differently?
- Also, (personally) is this something we can imagine Frontier will address or stop thinking about it / go find another game?
04 Apr 2018, 12:58am
TonoigusaHelping the Game & Devs:
...clipped for brevity...
I read and thought about your whole post, even though I had a sneaking suspicion early on what I was going to say... so here it is:
Core modules are the modules required for a ship to fly and jump. No more, no less. It has nothing to do with gameplay, it's simply what's needed to fly. I also wonder why you think it should be easy to get to the far reaches of the galaxy. An Adder to Beagle? Impressive! Why do you think it should be easier? It's like climbing Mt. Everest, it's hard to do, it's even harder to do it in flipflops (the equivalent of the Adder), and would be damned impressive if it were done! I would like to see the DSS point out surface POIs tho. I'd also like to see the ADS and DSS rolled into one, it doesn't make sense that it'd be a separate system for each, but I think integrating it into the sensor suite is a bit much. I'll also grant you the life support refill thing, I did a doubletake too, it made no sense, but I got over it. Then again, I fly a T-10 and Beluga almost exclusively, so I may not be your target audience with this post...
04 Apr 2018, 12:58am
Phisto SobaniiGood decision making and bit of luck will see you through there.
I like heat for PvP. Good choice for multis or cannons if you can’t decide on a different effect. Most useful against big ships or silent runners (have emissive too!).
Care to elaborate on how to get out of that situation?
04 Apr 2018, 1:07am
PhelborePhisto SobaniiGood decision making and bit of luck will see you through there.
I like heat for PvP. Good choice for multis or cannons if you can’t decide on a different effect. Most useful against big ships or silent runners (have emissive too!).
Care to elaborate on how to get out of that situation?
Generally don't let yourself get into it in the first place like so...
1) Jump into system with Commanders. Have your Bandwith monitor running (if you're on PC) or on console watch for NPCs populating the moment you drop in. Have your speed set to zero and turn your ass to the star after you arrive. If you're jumping into a CG or popular spot you have little time to decide what to do.
2) See lots of Commanders? See what they do. You've got your butt to the star, so they'll have a harder time getting behind you. Are they trying to get behind you or vectoring in your direction? Are they flying combat ships? Might want to consider dropping into normal space and high waking out of there.
3) If you are already in supercruise heading to your destination and see Commanders just be smart. See who they are. See what they are flying. See what they have equipped. If they vector towards you, don't be afraid to drop to normal space then high wake. Basically fly like how you should drive: defensively. Get your nose out of your cell phone and pay attention!
4) Practice the interdiction game with your friends in case you ever do get pulled by hostiles (some of them are real crafty and/or have modified interdictors). Alternatively, you can submit and then evade the attackers in normal space (Rinzler's Git Gud Guide to Trading in Open is great for this - check it out on YouTube).
Honestly, getting away from a gank wing 'loaded with scramble specturm, target lock breaker, and heat weapons' isn't nearly as terrifying as previously portrayed!
04 Apr 2018, 1:15am
04 Apr 2018, 2:21am
Connor Jeska "Kurama10"If you didn't heard Beyond is about fixing core gameplay features while still adding new stuff like the Guardian modules and Story and also the reason why development is being slow is because the story is suppose to develop in real time. I got a question how long have you played the game for ???
I refuse to accept that core gameplay is going to be fixed at the end of 3.0 . I’d put money on new features being introduced that arnt used all. Like CQC, Powerplay, and Multicrew. Every one of them sounded amazing, and upon release died.
Not to detract from the accomplishment of elite, however I have given up waiting for miricals on their broken ass widgets
04 Apr 2018, 4:07am
04 Apr 2018, 4:13am
04 Apr 2018, 4:28am
The powerplay point is just false though, especially if for some reason you count player-faction activities as powerplay, even though I don't powerplay. Though it would be for Aisling Duval if I did☆.。.*・°
Pour out a 40 for CQC, though.
04 Apr 2018, 4:48am
04 Apr 2018, 6:12am
TonoigusaHelping the Game & Devs:
Frontier have a Suggestions forum exactly for your ideas!
You appear to have put some thought into them, so it would more worth your while by posting them there
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/forumdisplay.php/76-Suggestions-amp-Feature-Requests
04 Apr 2018, 6:18am
PhelboreI disagree! Multicrew isn't dead! I've used it to teach a few guys new to the game how to fight without risking their own hard earned credits (and earn them some to help A-rate their first few ships).
KowganNor is powerplay. I persist having lots of fun with folks that work on it cooperatively.
Fair enough, multi crew has its purpose. Just not living up to the hype. Don’t tell me before release you weren’t planning to use it all the time. I know I was. My initial smear on that update was a little unfair though as the fighters and AI pilots are on all of my most used ships. So that was definitely a solid Add. However for the most part multi crew has become a niche tool, similar to CQC. Largely unused with TONS of untapped potential if they could hammer out some kinks.
The same can be said for power play, it was supposed to represent an endgame play option. On paper it sounded amazing! In reality it is the most mind numbing grind for a board that is difficult to see any difference in month to month. (I’m not digging into why, there are lots of posts on reddit regarding the problem and solutions to adjust to) It’s this static condition that results in low player use. Not saying people arnt using it, (I see the draw for certain players) but that tweaks need to be made for widespread adoption and use.
Anyone who has been around for pre release of ANY of the mentioned content knows that it’s current player participation condition was not intended. It’s ok to defend this content, the concepts are great and I don’t dispute some players enjoy it, however my dream for more than a year has been for Fronteir to backtrack to some of the stagnant content and just hammer out a couple tweaks. Nonetheless their in a jam. Any power play adjustment will be met with rage no matter what they do. Anyone remember week 53 (I think.. haha). A late server tick! Massive rage!
Other Realeases have been solid, engineers etc.
In the end I’m mostly opinionated hot air. Meh
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