Elite: Game talk

Phelbore
11 Dec 2018, 6:36pm
MMMMMalcolmWhile we wait for FDev to update their servers, I have a question for everyone:

Why isn't the Bubble expanding? Humans have an innate nature to not only explore but to colonize, but in the future that is Elite it seems humans are only concerned with half their nature. With all the ELW and WW that have been found by brave explorers in the game, why aren't the Big Three Powers conducting land grabs (or I should say system grabs) like the days of the California Gold Rush? The Galaxy is HUGE. yet we continue to squabble over such a tiny portion of it.


Simplu put, there are a bunch of planets already in the bubble that can still be colonized (even in the powers own space). It's far better to exploit nearby resources than far ones.
MMMMMalcolm
11 Dec 2018, 6:43pm
Rebecca Hail


I don't get what point you're trying to make.

We have two superpowers interlocked in an arms race and a relatively loose confederation of systems as the three biggest powers. On top of that there's a ton of uncolonized/sparsely colonized/underdeveloped systems in the bubble.

It makes sense that expansion isn't very high on the priority list for the superpowers and even in 3304 it's still quite an undertaking to colonize a system.

MMMMMalcolmIt makes sense but then again it doesn't.
It costs more to take a system from someone else than it does to claim one not occupied.



Well, that depends on how developed the system is.


Actually Ms Hail you've made my point. The entire point of Power Play is expansion, yet the Powers (2,3 whatever) don't see what is right in front of their face. 'Uncolonize/sparsely colonized/underdeveloped systems' in/out/and around the Bubble.

The costs spent to 'acquire' a fully developed system, then lose it, then acquire it again over and over and over again cannot be less than the cost to develop and inhabit an unoccupied one. especially when you account for training the manpower to defend and manipulate said system and the repair/replace costs of infrastructure damaged in the undertaking.
User23543
11 Dec 2018, 6:50pm
The folks that provide all the services to keep that cycle going are likely very pleased.

They are also likely the ones in charge.
MMMMMalcolm
11 Dec 2018, 6:55pm
Maybe I'm looking at it through today's lens too much. Do you believe the powers of today would continue to fight over say oil rights for example in Arab countries if a huge unclaimed cache was discovered on Mars? I don't think so. I think the fight would then become who could get to Mars first.

Yet that is not the case in Elite. We fight over one oil well when thousands are all around. (analogy)
Greybeard LXI
11 Dec 2018, 7:28pm
The 11 power players are looking to increase their political power to advance their agenda over civilization. They are not trying to expand civilization.

The three super powers’ territory are not defined by the power play bubble, but by which system controlling factions support the super power. They might seem to have a desire to expand civilization, but would not necessarily benefit from new systems colonized. After they colonize a system there is nothing to prevent factions that do not support them from taking control of the system.

(Are you confused about how an empire system can be part of Hudson’s Federation power play bubble? Yeah, me too.)

So it all comes down to what plagues us today:
Budgets (never enough to go around)
Short term focus (Need good quarterly reports)
Apathetic public (I just want lower taxes and to be left alone)

Remember that most of the expansion of the United States was driven by individuals who wanted more, not the governments. And I think several of them were driven by the need for less government interference. Expansion to Mars (2018) or another system (3304) is a touch expensive for anyone except a government to fund.
James Hussar
11 Dec 2018, 7:30pm
MMMMMalcolmMaybe I'm looking at it through today's lens too much. Do you believe the powers of today would continue to fight over say oil rights for example in Arab countries if a huge unclaimed cache was discovered on Mars? I don't think so. I think the fight would then become who could get to Mars first.

Yet that is not the case in Elite. We fight over one oil well when thousands are all around. (analogy)


What was the state of human expansion 1000 years ago versus now? Building a station or a settlement takes months. And expansion is limited by the number of people also. I think the current size of the bubble (in 3304) is highly credible, especially when populations in the established systems number in the billions and millions, and in the lesser systems in the tens of thousands.

As has been very insightfully said above, most of human resources are directed at internal conflict/struggles, and infrastructure development and maintenance. Expansion goals are in competition with other goals. Consider human expansion from 1,000AD to 2,000AD. Very few people explored just for the sake of wanderlust, and very few people went to settle somewhere else except under duress. We've always gone where it was profitable to go, and we've always moved somewhere else when the cost of staying where we are became more than we're willing to bear.

It takes time and resources (and reasons) to explore. Then, depending what you find, it's either compelling to settle there or it takes time to develop the place into something worthwhile. This is why Earthlike worlds are so valuable to find - much less time and effort to be invested into terraforming. Given the choice between breathable air and living in capsules, I imagine even in 3kAD, we'd still prefer Earthlike.
MMMMMalcolm
11 Dec 2018, 7:36pm
Greybeard LXIThe 11 power players are looking to increase their political power to advance their agenda over civilization. They are not trying to expand civilization.

The three super powers’ territory are not defined by the power play bubble, but by which system controlling factions support the super power. They might seem to have a desire to expand civilization, but would not necessarily benefit from new systems colonized. After they colonize a system there is nothing to prevent factions that do not support them from taking control of the system.

(Are you confused about how an empire system can be part of Hudson’s Federation power play bubble? Yeah, me too.)

So it all comes down to what plagues us today:
Budgets (never enough to go around)
Short term focus (Need good quarterly reports)
Apathetic public (I just want lower taxes and to be left alone)

Remember that most of the expansion of the United States was driven by individuals who wanted more, not the governments. And I think several of them were driven by the need for less government interference. Expansion to Mars (2018) or another system (3304) is a touch expensive for anyone except a government to fund.



Thanks Grey,

That explanation does clear the murk a bit behind the mentality of the powers that be.
(Are the servers updated yet?)
So it leads to another question: Would anyone be interested in an update that allows individuals or groups to not just discover new systems, but colonize them if they so choose?
Kari Kerenski
11 Dec 2018, 8:13pm
MMMMMalcolm
So it leads to another question: Would anyone be interested in an update that allows individuals or groups to not just discover new systems, but colonize them if they so choose?



Lore-wise I can't see that happening.

As Greybeard mentions in his rather spot-on post, a colonisation effort requires the levels of funding and organisation the only governments, and I will add huge corporations, can achieve.

We humble Commanders of the Pilot's Fed are nowhere near that.

Some small-holding or automated surface mining might be feasible and that would make some interesting game-play if the spirit of sandbox is respected
Ivo Janssen
11 Dec 2018, 10:51pm
Still can't play keep getting connection error, anyone els?
Lancher says Server status: Issues detected
James Hussar
11 Dec 2018, 11:01pm
Ivo JanssenStill can't play keep getting connection error, anyone els?
Lancher says Server status: Issues detected


Same. Adjudication server connection issues abound. Also, E:D MarketConnector complains that the "Frontier server is down".

Day One jitters. Their operations team is all over it, I'm sure. It may be a few hours, and even a few days before everything is stabilized. It's a pretty major update on the server side, and right after a major update on the client side. It's been tested and beta'd, but some kinks just don't show up until you put the new system under a full load.

I'm going to be patient, have a beer, grab food and some TV, and try again later. Launch Day is always fraught.
Mo Ronik
11 Dec 2018, 11:53pm
Kari Kerenski

Some small-holding or automated surface mining might be feasible and that would make some interesting game-play if the spirit of sandbox is respected


Like an asteroid base? Hollow out a rock and hang your shingle outside.
StalkerMac
12 Dec 2018, 12:23am
Ivo JanssenStill can't play keep getting connection error, anyone els?
Lancher says Server status: Issues detected


Server is probably struggling with all the traffic and system information coming though with everyone trying to outdo each other to get first discovered and first mapped.

Maybe it will be better after 24hrs and it calms down a little

Fly safe Cmdr's o7
Nullvektor
12 Dec 2018, 12:58am
I hope Inara's database isn't up to date because... ah... no Mambas out in Colonia? We got FDLs and Phantoms, and I understand the faction lock on the Federation and Empire ships-- and even the Alliance ships. But the Mamba? That's a racer.
Phelbore
12 Dec 2018, 1:38am
NullvektorI hope Inara's database isn't up to date because... ah... no Mambas out in Colonia? We got FDLs and Phantoms, and I understand the faction lock on the Federation and Empire ships-- and even the Alliance ships. But the Mamba? That's a racer.


Inara gets that data from EDDN. EDDN messages only trigger when someone in system with something like EDMC running does something. I think docking updates the shipyard. You might want to wait a couple days or populate it yourself.
Nullvektor
12 Dec 2018, 2:08am
Welp, time for me to get to work!

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