Elite: Game talk

Thinder
24 Nov 2024, 9:33am
Rawnu

I did not only read ...


I don't need to read this to know that their range is from stock, before engineering, HALF that of a multi-cannon, so no-thanks the gadget, if to fire it mean that you have to be within best range of a target weapons I don't see where there is a positive in this trade.

BTW you were WRONG stating that "without giving necessarily more oomph", As I said I can start lasing a target at 2100 M or 6000m if I wanted to and if you think that they can take down shields with an EXPERIMENTAL EFFECTS, well read again...

As far as I know, the only weapon immune to shields are the Flechettes, and the most efficient against shields are the Beam Lasers, so come within 2000m of a 3C BEAM LASER [FIXED] and two 1E BEAM LASER [FIXED] and see the difference.

I start by lasing, I finish by lasing and I don't need to be that close nor do I run out of Ammo, I have learnt to observe the target shield level and once it is down , it is a matter of seconds before it's dead.

NOW, compare the largest Frag to a 4A MULTI-CANNON [GIMBALLED] Overcharged ︎︎︎︎︎ Corrosive Shell and see where the problem is:



You got less range, a shorter damage fall off, less armour Piercing, slower shots, and less ammo. All traded to an hypothetical higher DMG with no anti-shield capability, just a reminder, Screening Shell only protect against the enemy torpedoes or other slow ammo.

Your assumption that Corrosive Shells are reducing ammo too much without giving necessarily more oomph is plain wrong.

The reason why your weapon fit is good on the Python is because 1) You don't have Class 4 weapon slots, 2) You can't fit 4 X 2B MODIFIED GUARDIAN PLASMA CHARGER [FIXED] Overcharged ︎ without compromising your shield strength, due to a Class 6 Power Plant.

As for the list of ships you mentioned as targets, I have no problem taking them down with a Krait MK II, 1 X 3C BEAM LASER [GIMBALLED] and 4 X 2B MODIFIED GUARDIAN PLASMA CHARGER [FIXED] Overcharged ︎ does the job just fine, I prefer my Corvette tough, a lot of shield tank and firepower.

vs
While the effect is active, incoming damage from all sources is increased by 25%, and all attacks receive a +20 bonus to their armour piercing value.


Last edit: 24 Nov 2024, 9:38am
Rayman.
24 Nov 2024, 9:41am
it would be best if short clips were shown.
Thinder
24 Nov 2024, 10:49am
Rayman.it would be best if short clips were shown.


I would if I could recover my Youtube Player account...

Frags and Flechettes are good fits for the Fer-de-Lance, Mamba, Python Mk II, simply because they are limited to low Power Draw weapons by their Class 6 Power Plants although the FDL could fit a Class 4 4A MULTI-CANNON [GIMBALLED] Overcharged ︎︎︎︎︎ Corrosive Shell.

So they can still get high damage despite not being able to fit weapons like the MODIFIED GUARDIAN PLASMA CHARGER, but compare to the Krait MK II with their Class 7 Power Plant, they have less shield and less fire power, that's a fact, the only aspect where the Frag is superior in fact is Damage Fall Off Range.

Like everything in this game, weapon fits are a matter of compromise, if you don't have the Power Plant to feed them, your choice is limited, that's what testing Fer-de-Lance and Python Mk II vs my Krait MK II taught me, there is no substitute for Power output.

Here is a stock Frag compared to a MODIFIED GUARDIAN PLASMA CHARGER on my Krait, I have 4 X of them...


As early as you start engineering them, they draw more power, generate more heat and still will have less Armour Piercing, especially if you equiped your ship with a Class 4 4A MULTI-CANNON [GIMBALLED] Overcharged ︎︎︎︎︎ Corrosive Shell, I have more Armour Piercing from my 3C BEAM LASER [GIMBALLED] Long range ︎︎︎︎︎ Thermal Vent than a stock Frag.

I haven't engineered FRAGMENT CANNON, but I'd be surprised if their Armour Piercing capabilities increased by the 70% DMG a OVERCHARGED - GRADE 5 ︎︎︎︎︎ give you, on the other hand, an FLD might beneficiate from a Class 4 MULTI-CANNON with Corrosive Shell...
Bainsey7
24 Nov 2024, 12:00pm
I'm trying to purchase 10 'Faction Associates Data' from a fleet carrier and I keep getting:

"transaction error: press OK to exit vendor"

Does anyone know how to fix/bypass/avoid this? I've tried relogging and flipping between open and solo but nothing works.

Any suggestions?
Rawnu
24 Nov 2024, 12:02pm
What screening shell is doing: reduce reload time by 50%. That is the effect you should be looking at. Together with high capacity we see damage increase, sustained dps increase, rate of fire increase, sustained rof increase, burst interval reduction, ammo clip size and maximum increase, and the reduced reload time as I already mentioned. This combination is the power of the High Capacity Frag with Screening Shell. It SHREDS at high intervals and rips shields apart by BRUTE FORCE. If you put on Rapid Fire, you sacrifice ammo clip/maximum and a bit of damage but would gain even more ROF, reduced burst interval and reduced reload time. Again, shields are irrelevant here, just as armor because of the brute force you are bringing. It's not elegant, by no means, and you might find better suited loadouts for various combat jobs. But if you like to take the biggest shotgun to the face of any opponent, this is unbeatable.
Rawnu
24 Nov 2024, 12:09pm
Sampi Ogonek
RawnuBut I am not sure with corrosive, it's reducing ammo too much without giving necessarily more oomph (especially if you can have screening shell).


That’s why I’d put corrosive on one class 2 frag cannon only (others would have screening shell). Putting corrosive on more than one weapon is a waste because the effect does not stack, but it does increase the effective DPS for all weapons while it lasts.

RawnuFrags are fun, right?


They are I haven’t played that much with frags (lacking sufficient interest in pure non-AX combat builds to spend the necessary play time to engineer them properly — although with the recent abundance of high grade materials, I may give it a try), but I have noticed they do pack a good punch.


I was also thinking, depending on what your up against, to replace one medium frag with a rail gun, short range and feedback cascade. Some of the NPCs use SCB and if it takes more than one swing at your target to strip them off their shields, this might be interesting. You could have the rail in the same firing group, short taps for frags, and after the last volley a long tap for firing the rail gun. Not sure if that is necessary, giving how much oomph screening shell gives you though.

Re engineering: mats drop like flies these days. Especially if you do AX combat, you always get a load of high grade mats. And HGE now fill up your mats in one go, it's amazing.
Thinder
24 Nov 2024, 12:43pm
RawnuWhat screening shell is doing: reduce reload time by 50%. That is the effect you should be looking at. Together with high capacity we see damage increase, sustained dps increase, rate of fire increase, sustained rof increase, burst interval reduction, ammo clip size and maximum increase, and the reduced reload time as I already mentioned.


This doesn't take down shields, and it's pretty obvious that the Frag before engineering also has poor Armour Piercing capabilities and doesn't work against shields more than any other kinetic weapon.

You'd be better off fitting one 2C BEAM LASER [GIMBALLED] Long range ︎︎︎︎︎ Thermal Vent and one 2F MULTI-CANNON [GIMBALLED] Overcharged ︎︎︎︎︎ Corrosive Shell, at least this weapon weaknesses would be improved.

You swear by DPS which is only potential and doesn't mean much on itself if you're unable to hit modules efficiently, (which is what I do by targeting sub-modules such as Power Plant) the multi-cannons does that, the Beam lasers does that with Corrosive Shell with high Armour Piercing capabilities.

As for the MODIFIED GUARDIAN PLASMA CHARGER, they cause damage to both shields, hull and modules, one salvo and the shield is down on most medium ships, the laser accelerate the process. Absolute damage is more important than raw potential DPS, especially with slow rounds which are more difficult to aim and easier to dodge.

Absolute Damage is damage that ignores resistances, Shields and Armor have Damage Resistances, on my Krait I have 2 X 5D GUARDIAN SHIELD REINFORCEMENT and 4 X 0A SHIELD BOOSTER Resistance augmented ︎︎︎︎︎ Force Block...

So at the end of the day, once engineered, the Frag looks like a good compromise for ships with limited Power Output, that's what compromises means, they have more speed and agility but they pay it back with lower shield and weapons potential, there's no going around this.
Atusia Duval
24 Nov 2024, 12:50pm
Take the Pacifer Frag Cannon. High performance magazine and experimental plate effect screening shell. 4x Pacifer size 3 and two 2x size two Frag Cannon non gimbal and with the previously mentioned modifications. The advantage of Pacifer Frag Cannon is increased range (believe 3000) and it spreads less than the normal Frag Cannons. The disadvantage is if you can't handle them, they are solid weapons. Having these weapons installed on the Python MK II makes it a beast.
Rawnu
24 Nov 2024, 1:15pm
Atusia DuvalTake the Pacifer Frag Cannon. High performance magazine and experimental plate effect screening shell. 4x Pacifer size 3 and two 2x size two Frag Cannon non gimbal and with the previously mentioned modifications. The advantage of Pacifer Frag Cannon is increased range (believe 3000) and it spreads less than the normal Frag Cannons. The disadvantage is if you can't handle them, they are solid weapons. Having these weapons installed on the Python MK II makes it a beast.


Hmm, now that sounds like my kind of gun! I haven't unlocked it as I wasn't particular interested in powerplay before. I might do this with PP2.0, so thanks for the tip!
AH
24 Nov 2024, 1:34pm
Sampi Ogonek
RawnuOk, this is a ridiculous Python Mk2 build: https://edsy.org/s/vSgI7ov
It's all frags with high cap and screening shell. If you want to make it more ridiculous, you could go with overcharged and screening shell.


Surprisingly enough, replacing HiCap with Overcharged changes the sustained DPS very little (and for 2D/G frags it actually decreases them) because the HiCap blueprint increases both the the ROF and clip size (meaning less frequent reloads). If you wanted to make it even more ridiculous, go for the Rapid Fire effect instead; you can then get the sustained DPS of 607.5

(Although I would go for corrosive shell in one of the class 2 frags instead of screening shell, as that effectively doubles the DPS once shields are gone.)



They will be waffling about it for pages and pages.

2 multicannons = both overcharged, pair corrosive shell and incendiary rounds.
Done.
Have fun and thank me later.

PS! incendiary helps stripping shields.
Riazer
24 Nov 2024, 1:48pm
Sorry guys, I have a question about powerplay and merits.
You see, I have a non-odyssey copy of Elite, and I'm having some trouble figuring stuff out. Specifically, I am currently pledged to Edmund Mahon at rank 1, but I don't seem to have any weekly assignment related to my power, nor am I earning merit by mining in controlled systems or by bounty hunting; thus, I'm stuck with delivering data to the Gateway system from fortifying systems.

Did I miss something? Is it due to the lack of Odyssey? Or do I need to reach rank 2 next week in order to unlock more powerplay features?
Atusia Duval
24 Nov 2024, 2:46pm
I think you need an Odyssey version for Powerplay 2.0. Powerplay doesn't work in Elite Horizon. I have the weekly missions every week. In the higher ranks of your power they also become more numerous. For me it's now 10 missions in a week. Ask Elite Dangerous support.

Last edit: 24 Nov 2024, 2:52pm
Rayman.
24 Nov 2024, 2:57pm
Rawnu
Atusia DuvalTake the Pacifer Frag Cannon. High performance magazine and experimental plate effect screening shell. 4x Pacifer size 3 and two 2x size two Frag Cannon non gimbal and with the previously mentioned modifications. The advantage of Pacifer Frag Cannon is increased range (believe 3000) and it spreads less than the normal Frag Cannons. The disadvantage is if you can't handle them, they are solid weapons. Having these weapons installed on the Python MK II makes it a beast.



Hmm, now that sounds like my kind of gun! I haven't unlocked it as I wasn't particular interested in powerplay before. I might do this with PP2.0, so thanks for the tip!

Thinder
RawnuWhat screening shell is doing: reduce reload time by 50%. That is the effect you should be looking at. Together with high capacity we see damage increase, sustained dps increase, rate of fire increase, sustained rof increase, burst interval reduction, ammo clip size and maximum increase, and the reduced reload time as I already mentioned.



This doesn't take down shields, and it's pretty obvious that the Frag before engineering also has poor Armour Piercing capabilities and doesn't work against shields more than any other kinetic weapon.

You'd be better off fitting one 2C BEAM LASER [GIMBALLED] Long range ︎︎︎︎︎ Thermal Vent and one 2F MULTI-CANNON [GIMBALLED] Overcharged ︎︎︎︎︎ Corrosive Shell, at least this weapon weaknesses would be improved.

You swear by DPS which is only potential and doesn't mean much on itself if you're unable to hit modules efficiently, (which is what I do by targeting sub-modules such as Power Plant) the multi-cannons does that, the Beam lasers does that with Corrosive Shell with high Armour Piercing capabilities.

As for the MODIFIED GUARDIAN PLASMA CHARGER, they cause damage to both shields, hull and modules, one salvo and the shield is down on most medium ships, the laser accelerate the process. Absolute damage is more important than raw potential DPS, especially with slow rounds which are more difficult to aim and easier to dodge.

Absolute Damage is damage that ignores resistances, Shields and Armor have Damage Resistances, on my Krait I have 2 X 5D GUARDIAN SHIELD REINFORCEMENT and 4 X 0A SHIELD BOOSTER Resistance augmented ︎︎︎︎︎ Force Block...

So at the end of the day, once engineered, the Frag looks like a good compromise for ships with limited Power Output, that's what compromises means, they have more speed and agility but they pay it back with lower shield and weapons potential, there's no going around this.



I don't even know what it's worth using screening shells every time or not.

I have an imp courier in this build Sombra currently but I'm tempted to have screening shells in three M frag cannons and I guess I should do it?
Atusia Duval
24 Nov 2024, 3:37pm
Screening Shell reduces weapon loading times by half. That's pretty good. To unlock the Pacifer Frag Cannon it takes power play. The first module activations occur at level 34. But there is a solution. Configures an AFK Type 10. 9x pulse laser turret and modified for long range, thermal event and 2x oversize. You can find the exact description of the T 10 AFK on YouTube. Then things quickly change with the rank levels in the respective power.

Here is one of many AFK T10 links: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE0bfsiUy_M
Thinder
24 Nov 2024, 4:18pm
Atusia DuvalScreening Shell reduces weapon loading times by half. That's pretty good.


It matters not how much shells you throw at the target if even fully engineered your Armour Piercing remains at 30 vs 110 for a 2B MODIFIED GUARDIAN PLASMA CHARGER, I should know I just engineered one 2 A FRAGMENT CANNON Level 3 (I couldn't get through Zacariah Nemo as his base is red locked) but there is no difference between no engineering and Level 3 Overcharged SCREENING SHELL in terms of armour piercing.

The point being, I still have to read one of you guys explaining how you get shields down with these without lasers and if you fully comprehend the difference between absolute and potential damage, because 667M/s vs 6000M/s or even 1600M/s shot speed (MODIFIED GUARDIAN PLASMA CHARGER and MULTI-CANNON) makes quite a difference vs a non-cooperative target and unless you're firing from point blank range it's not gonna meet the potential maximum DPS by a margin.

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