Elite: Lore

16 Mar 2020, 1:34pm
Well, guess I'll just have to quote a few lines from the E:D wiki again to show that the ordinary Imperial citizen treats slaves well. I will comment in italics.

E:D Wiki
[...]

It was shaming to do something that put people in a bad state. The poorhouses still happened, but sensibly, people were supposed to look after each other.
Yes, I am aware that several senators are not living up to that standard, but as they have been placed above the law I would not consider them ordinary Imperial citizens.

[...]

Imperial Citizens (aka Imperials or Imps) like to project their wealth. They prefer opulence, style and quality with no expense spared. This is visible in their cities, ships by Gutamaya and clothing.
In a way the slaves you own are just another way to project said wealth. You dress them well as yet another way of saying "Look, I haz shiniez!"

[...]

In many Imperial families there is little direct interaction between the parents and their children other than at ceremonial events where they are required to perform roles. Children are attended by Imperial Slaves from a young age. Children within the privileged upper echelons of the Empire are indoctrinated into Imperial style, intonation, dress and decorum as befitted their parent's socioeconomic status in society.
This means that there is A LOT to do inside the Empire for Imperial slaves.

[...]

The Empire relies less on mechanical technology such as robotics and artificial intelligence, and instead uses Imperial Slaves and clones to do the work which machines usually perform in other parts of the universe.
And if I remember correctly "robotics" tended to be illegal goods in Imperial systems in "Frontier: Elite II" and "Frontier: First Encounters". I assume that changed when Aisling began her anti-slavery movement.

[...]

Source


And to answer that other question that A C Ender asked how long this endebted servitude lasts:

While I've not found anything solid yet I'll stick with an opinion I posted earlier for now: It depends on how large your debts were and what services you were willing and/or capable to offer.
16 Mar 2020, 1:35pm
..."and clones"? Imps do cloning?
16 Mar 2020, 1:38pm
Calteru..."and clones"? Imps do cloning?


They do, mostly to breed specialized infantry units. (Source)
16 Mar 2020, 1:57pm
Amata Lirein
Calteru..."and clones"? Imps do cloning?



They do, mostly to breed specialized infantry units. (Source)


"...but could not claim the honours of that for herself due to her clone status."

Well you just opened a whole new can of worms. So being cloned obviously makes you a second class citizen. If you don't agree with this judgement: Why else would someone not be able to take credit due to their cloned status?
16 Mar 2020, 2:08pm
CalteruSee?! This. Robots don't require any of this. CLEARLY easier and more logical, then, to maintain a robotic workforce.


I suspect robots would be out of the question in the Elite universe due to the general experiences with Artificial Intelligence.  Isn't anything much beyond a Roomba intelligence wise heavily suppressed?
16 Mar 2020, 2:16pm
John Montag
CalteruSee?! This. Robots don't require any of this. CLEARLY easier and more logical, then, to maintain a robotic workforce.



I suspect robots would be out of the question in the Elite universe due to the general experiences with Artificial Intelligence.  Isn't anything much beyond a Roomba intelligence wise heavily suppressed?


Am I the only one checking the sources?

"The Empire supports and extensively uses human cloning. Around 2925 CE, Federal intelligence sources accused the Duvals of instigating a cloning programme to breed specialised infantry units.[3] Some other factions banned it within their own jurisdictions. The Federation prefers mechanical artificial intelligence."
16 Mar 2020, 2:20pm
A C Ender
Amata Lirein
Calteru..."and clones"? Imps do cloning?




They do, mostly to breed specialized infantry units. (Source)



"...but could not claim the honours of that for herself due to her clone status."

Well you just opened a whole new can of worms. So being cloned obviously makes you a second class citizen. If you don't agree with this judgement: Why else would someone not be able to take credit due to their cloned status?


THAT would not be an issue with the Empire though because...

Elite: The Dark Wheel novella has a clone character called Elyssia Fields. She's a clone from the "clone world" Teorge. Spoilers: Rafe paired her with Alex because she was an excellent pilot but could not claim the honours of that for herself due to her clone status.


...Teorge is an Alliance world.
16 Mar 2020, 2:24pm
A C Ender
John Montag
CalteruSee?! This. Robots don't require any of this. CLEARLY easier and more logical, then, to maintain a robotic workforce.




I suspect robots would be out of the question in the Elite universe due to the general experiences with Artificial Intelligence.  Isn't anything much beyond a Roomba intelligence wise heavily suppressed?



Am I the only one checking the sources?

"The Empire supports and extensively uses human cloning. Around 2925 CE, Federal intelligence sources accused the Duvals of instigating a cloning programme to breed specialised infantry units.[3] Some other factions banned it within their own jurisdictions. The Federation prefers mechanical artificial intelligence."


I posted that three posts earlier, you even quoted me just underneath said post So no, you're not the only one checking sources
16 Mar 2020, 2:28pm
Isaiah EvansonHe's not wrong though.


Isaiah with the hot takes again. Big Oof on that one.
16 Mar 2020, 2:32pm
mechanical artificial intelligence.


This implies controlled automation, not actual AI. Again, AI, real AI, is banned and highly feared across human space. There may be unknown pockets of it, but that would be few and far between.
16 Mar 2020, 2:49pm
A C Ender"The Empire supports and extensively uses human cloning. Around 2925 CE, Federal intelligence sources accused the Duvals of instigating a cloning programme to breed specialised infantry units.[3] Some other factions banned it within their own jurisdictions. The Federation prefers mechanical artificial intelligence."


Where did you find this?

And I agree with Jubei's perspective.
16 Mar 2020, 2:57pm
John Montag
A C Ender"The Empire supports and extensively uses human cloning. Around 2925 CE, Federal intelligence sources accused the Duvals of instigating a cloning programme to breed specialised infantry units.[3] Some other factions banned it within their own jurisdictions. The Federation prefers mechanical artificial intelligence."



Where did you find this?

And I agree with Jubei's perspective.


He found it here. (I linked this earlier)
16 Mar 2020, 3:06pm
Ah, that explains why I didn't find it.  I was looking through the thread for a source about AI, not cloning.  A minor point of order: you folks are linking to the wiki.  That's not a primary source.

Regarding the wiki's point about the Federation these are their citations:

https://us2.campaign-archive.com/?u=dcbf6b86b4b0c7d1c21b73b1e&id=f72c0f91b2

I didn't see anything in there about the Federation, AI, and mechanical labor.

http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Empire

This is just another wiki article with no citations.

Right now it sounds like the point about the Federation and robots is made up.  Did I miss something?
16 Mar 2020, 3:26pm
John MontagAh, that explains why I didn't find it.  I was looking through the thread for a source about AI, not cloning.  A minor point of order: you folks are linking to the wiki.  That's not a primary source.

Regarding the wiki's point about the Federation these are their citations:

https://us2.campaign-archive.com/?u=dcbf6b86b4b0c7d1c21b73b1e&id=f72c0f91b2


That citation is for the first part of the sentence it refers to: The cloning of humans being prohibited inside Fed space.

I didn't see anything in there about the Federation, AI, and mechanical labor.

http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Empire

This is just another wiki article with no citations.

Right now it sounds like the point about the Federation and robots is made up.  Did I miss something?


That link seems to refer to the last line of that article about the Empire, referring to them preferring slave labour and clones over machines.

Edit:

A good indication that the Empire prefers using slaves over machines AND that those slaves get cared for by their owners would be Gutamaya. Those ships are extremely expensive compared to their Fed, Alliance and free market counterparts because they are handmade and Gutamaya needs to take care of its workforce out of their own pocket.
16 Mar 2020, 3:36pm
I'm not talking about the Imperial stuff.  We're talking about this line: "The Federation prefers mechanical artificial intelligence."

A.C. complained that people aren't reading the sources in response to my comments about the Federation and robots.  I then went on to look at said sources that both you and he have linked and they don't provide any support to the notion "The Federation prefers mechanical artificial intelligence."

Do you agree, Amata?

Furthermore, if people are going to complain about sources not being used and then hold up wiki articles as sources I'm not sure there's much meaningful discussion to be had on much at all.

Post a reply

You must be signed in to post here.
Discussion about Elite:Dangerous lore, universe and anything related...