Elite: Lore
14 Mar 2020, 4:51pm
I somehow doubt that the Alliance would ever force a system or region to join, though-- doesn't seem their style. Free association and all that.
14 Mar 2020, 7:37pm
I'm not sure that would go well for the superpowers. Colonia isn't a bunch of soft explorers anymore.
14 Mar 2020, 8:04pm
Too little value for way too much effort. I don't want to imagine the logistics of actually projecting power over such a distance.
The events centered around the creation of the empire were very different, different motivations and different political situations.
14 Mar 2020, 8:34pm
14 Mar 2020, 8:58pm
Rebecca HailIn all honesty I can't really see why the Federation or the Empire would have an interest in subjugating Colonia.
Too little value for way too much effort. I don't want to imagine the logistics of actually projecting power over such a distance.
The events centered around the creation of the empire were very different, different motivations and different political situations.
You sure? Because as far as I understand it the situation was not so much different. Due to the technological state of ships back then the Federation was in need to establish a beachhead as a staging area inside the Achenar system, which indicates that the logistics at least at the time of the Battle of Achenar must have been a nightmare as well. And the Federation's original motivation were not the aliens on Capitol but because Achenar refused to join the Federation... something it does not seem to comprehend very well. It seems a lot that the Federation is actually quite full of themselves in the sense of "Who wouldn't want to be part of the greatest democracy in history?" That same attitude eventually also caused Alioth (aka the Alliance) to kick the Federation out as well (The Empire got kicked out for similar reasons iirc).
So to me it seems like the Federation does not need a better reason then "Those are humans, they originate from Earth, Earth is home of the Federation, so all humans should/want to be Federation citizens."
14 Mar 2020, 9:25pm
Arrogance & self-righteousness seems an eternal vice...
14 Mar 2020, 9:48pm
Unless it's revealed the password to Raxxla (spoilers: it's just "password"
) is locked in Jaques' head there's no reason to go after a bunch of people 22,000 light year away.14 Mar 2020, 11:37pm
But 1000 years later, the bubble isn't monolithic anymore, it's split between two superpowers and the Alliance (yeah, depending on the definition the Alliance is a superpower too). The Federation has more pressing matters at hand, than to subjugate a barely colonized area tens of thousands of lightyears away. The biggest is obviously the Empire, since Feds and Imps are still deadlocked in an arms race.
Fighting a campaign over a long distance that would bind a fairly large part of the federal fleet would only weaken the federal power projection and building up new fleets, would surely provoke a similiar response from the Empire. The same goes for the Empire obviously.
The Federation has long moved on from the reasoning that "All humans originate from Earth and are therefore federal."
As for the alien genocide being an excuse for the Federation to intervene: A similiar genocide happened within the Federation a couple of years/decades before, which provoked the decree of the Federation to protect alien life. While it was certainly not the big single reason, it certainly played into the equation when the Federation decided to attack Achenar.
The thing is, the Federation isn't just black or white, neither is the Empire. They have their different motivations, for the Federation that is usually cold, hard cash. There's none in Colonia.
Synthya WylderSimilarly, as in the War of 1812, in which to no small degree was ignited over the newly-independent American sailors being removed from their ships & forcibly impressed to service on English ships, with the reasoning that the Americans spoke mainly English & were of mainly English heritage & therefore were ultimately owed their allegiance & under the control of the English Crown, which refused to recognize American sovereignty.
Arrogance & self-righteousness seems an eternal vice...
Funnily enough, the Federation is modelled after the US and not after the UK though.
Synthya WylderI can imagine with the advent of Carriers, if they bring resupply, repair, etc. service with them, that would be feasible, but it would take a decent number of them. Ofc, that could be mitigated with feints & diversionary tactics...
Carriers need to be resupplied, too. That you'd be able to find infrastructure capable of doing that in Colonia is doubtful.
14 Mar 2020, 11:55pm
15 Mar 2020, 12:08am
Rebecca HailThe Federation is per definition a hyper capitalist state. Achenar held value back then, because it was still within the periphery of the federation, if not economical, then political. It was the split of a monolithic block and the Federation thought to prevent exactly that. If the Empire had developed as the original founder of the Achenar colony had intended, it'd be well possible that it would've rejoined the Federation at some point.
But 1000 years later, the bubble isn't monolithic anymore, it's split between two superpowers and the Alliance (yeah, depending on the definition the Alliance is a superpower too). The Federation has more pressing matters at hand, than to subjugate a barely colonized area tens of thousands of lightyears away. The biggest is obviously the Empire, since Feds and Imps are still deadlocked in an arms race.
Fighting a campaign over a long distance that would bind a fairly large part of the federal fleet would only weaken the federal power projection and building up new fleets, would surely provoke a similiar response from the Empire. The same goes for the Empire obviously.
The Federation has long moved on from the reasoning that "All humans originate from Earth and are therefore federal."
As for the alien genocide being an excuse for the Federation to intervene: A similiar genocide happened within the Federation a couple of years/decades before, which provoked the decree of the Federation to protect alien life. While it was certainly not the big single reason, it certainly played into the equation when the Federation decided to attack Achenar.
The thing is, the Federation isn't just black or white, neither is the Empire. They have their different motivations, for the Federation that is usually cold, hard cash. There's none in Colonia.
Synthya WylderSimilarly, as in the War of 1812, in which to no small degree was ignited over the newly-independent American sailors being removed from their ships & forcibly impressed to service on English ships, with the reasoning that the Americans spoke mainly English & were of mainly English heritage & therefore were ultimately owed their allegiance & under the control of the English Crown, which refused to recognize American sovereignty.
Arrogance & self-righteousness seems an eternal vice...
Funnily enough, the Federation is modelled after the US and not after the UK though.
Synthya WylderI can imagine with the advent of Carriers, if they bring resupply, repair, etc. service with them, that would be feasible, but it would take a decent number of them. Ofc, that could be mitigated with feints & diversionary tactics...
Carriers need to be resupplied, too. That you'd be able to find infrastructure capable of doing that in Colonia is doubtful.
Yes, I know, RL today, the Federation is very definitely following a projected 'future U.S.' ultra-capitalist corporate style... & I can imagine just that via both the novels I have read (Heinlein's "The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress" comes to mind) & I can imagine what would happen if, say, a future Mars colony decided to declare independence & form something like the "Free Martian Republic". I think it fair that I can comment on the U.S. as I was born & live there. But, I'll label myself a "Free-Market Rational Anarchist"-style Libertarian, which is why the "Harsh Mistress" novel is 1 of my favorites. A true classic!
In E:D Lore, as I understand it so far, Imperial faction is the 'Empire' you mentioned above, yes? Or do I misunderstand? IMO, both major factions are/have their flaws, things with which I don't agree, along with things which I do agree... if I did make a decision to join one right now, if for nothing else, out of basic principles, it would be the Alliance, but for me, that's way too premature atm. It seems most prudent at this point to avoid any official affiliation & remain Independent; I think, that keeps my options open.
I'm quite involved in RL politics, & I know that's 1 of the 2 "Toxic Topics" so let me know if I've gotten too close or even crossed that border; it wasn't intentional.
15 Mar 2020, 12:34am
The Empire of Achenar isn't just a faction, it's a superpower of it's own, that can stand up to the Federation in the lore.
Joining a faction isn't something ultimate. In the very, very beginning I started out as Imperial, but switched sides fairly quickly to the Federation, because I like the grittiness of it more.
15 Mar 2020, 8:05am
On another topic, is dept in the Empire heritary? As in: your parents were in debt but died, so you take over their debt.
15 Mar 2020, 8:45am
A C EnderArchon Delaine (Kumo Crew) got a skull-spider as a mark. How are any of the other even an option?
On another topic, is dept in the Empire heritary? As in: your parents were in debt but died, so you take over their debt.
Well, according to the E:D wiki:
Having an unpaid debt is seen as utterly dishonourable – an honourable Imperial Citizen would sell themselves into slavery to clear a debt they couldn’t otherwise clear. [...] Imperial society is based on honour. The values resemble the ancient Roman Dignitas and Japanese Bushido.
Wikipedia concerning dignitas:
Dignitas was the influence a male citizen acquired throughout his life, including personal reputation, moral standing, and ethical worth, along with the man's entitlement to respect and proper treatment owing to the reputation and standing of his family.
The above definition makes me think that it's more of an individual thing. The debt is yours and yours alone, and if you can't repay it your dignitas demands that you settle it by selling yourself into slavery. While you will not inherit that debt it will hurt you indirectly though as it hurts your family's reputation.
Now you need to remember that Imperial slavery is a temporary thing. Once you worked enough to repay your debt your status as Imperial citizen will be restored, and once this happens your time as a slave will no longer matter.
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E:D wiki againAdditionally like Bushido, Imperial honour has moral values which stress some combination of sincerity, frugality, loyalty, martial arts mastery, and honour until death.
Well damn... guess I need to imagine what kind of martial art my character learned growing up
Also: Frugality?! That kinda contradicts that Imperials are expected to flaunt their wealth.
15 Mar 2020, 9:07am
I'm assuming that by unpaid debt the Wiki means a debt you can't pay. All debts are unpaid once you paid it there's no debt anymore), and I would assume that debt in itself isn't dishonourable (mortgage, student loan etc).