Elite: Lore

Amata Lirein
22 Mar 2020, 9:26am
A C EnderMy guess is you don't live in a monarchy? There are multiple princes and princesses. Everyone in the line of succession is a prince/princess. What you refer to would be crown prince/princess, which would be the one -first- in line of succession.


While Germany still has aristocracy it has not been a monarchy since November 1918, so no, I don't live in one. But what do crown princes have to do with this?

edit:

Oh, I see what you mean now. Don't ask me about that one, I just grabbed that pic from Google after searching for "heraldy coronet rank"

Last edit: 22 Mar 2020, 9:33am
Jubei Himura
23 Mar 2020, 1:20am
Amata Lirein Oh, care to elaborate?


Sure. First, lines are not curvy or 'organic'. 'Organic curves' being a staple of Imperial design. Thus I can see it being like a chevron, but with an elegant curve or loop. May be something akin to tribal knot work. The Imperial bird would 100% be there, without the extra designs, at least for the mid ranks. Higher ranks would hold the extra designs.

Perhaps I'll make the designs I'm thinking about...
Amata Lirein
23 Mar 2020, 1:31am
Jubei Himura
Amata Lirein Oh, care to elaborate?



Sure. First, lines are not curvy or 'organic'. 'Organic curves' being a staple of Imperial design. Thus I can see it being like a chevron, but with an elegant curve or loop. May be something akin to tribal knot work. The Imperial bird would 100% be there, without the extra designs, at least for the mid ranks. Higher ranks would hold the extra designs.

Perhaps I'll make the designs I'm thinking about...


Those extra designs inside the delta are part of the official symbol of the Empire though, as seen here:



Or here:



edit:

My guess: The large circle is Achenar 6, the smaller one Achenar 6d aka Capitol

Last edit: 23 Mar 2020, 1:45am
Jubei Himura
23 Mar 2020, 2:13am
Amata LireinThose extra designs inside the delta are part of the official symbol of the Empire though, as seen here:


Oh I'm aware... gimme a bit... wokin' on something.
Jubei Himura
23 Mar 2020, 4:36am
Alrighty, first draft... it's late and I'm tired.

Amata Lirein
23 Mar 2020, 8:12am
While it is impressive work I think it's too elaborate (and in parts too medival) for the 3300s. You need to remember that a symbol like that should not look out of place on a Remlok suit and also needs to fit the aesthetics of the game which seems to favour stylized symbols. It also feels like that poor bird is getting smaller (and therefor less important) with each rank, something I cannot see the Empire do to its most important symbol.
Jubei Himura
23 Mar 2020, 1:42pm
I'm open to criticism, and I thank you for your input on it. I will take it into consideration in my next couple of drafts. To be honest, I did not consider the Remlok at this time, I was more thinking of the rank insignia itself on a uniform. We'll look into this at a later time.

However, I will gently counter a couple of things. The Empire still value swords (as seen in many Elite Books), draw inspiration from ancient Rome, and use very medieval terms for ranks. Thus, I do not believe it is too medieval. Additionally, the Empire is all about elegance, and elaborate show. If anything, there is a possibility that I'm being too simple in the design. These are black and white right now, in future releases there will be silver and gold. Possibly platinum?

To keep it lore-friendly, I used many assets from the Imperial logos. The chevron-wings, swords, and shield were added. I used those because, even after thousands of years, they are universal symbols (ok, not the chevron-wings thing).

Again, this is a first draft. Word caught on and I'm working now with a few Imperial group leaders, and well respected Imperial scribes (who came out of Elite retirement because of RL quarantine), to flesh this out. Please look forward to more edits (because we're bored).
Amata Lirein
23 Mar 2020, 2:03pm
Oh, I most certainly will^^ And while I agree with the points you, well, pointed out you should consider that the personal emblems of the four Imperial powerplayers are also very stylized versions of classical coat-of-arms, with Zamina propably being the most classical/elaborate

Zamina Torval:



Arissa Lavigny-Duval:



Aisling Duval:



Denton Patreus:



If these four are any indication on how the modern Empire is handling code-of-arms in the 3300s it seems like the classic shield is no longer part of that culture.
Jubei Himura
23 Mar 2020, 2:25pm
Amata LireinIf these four are any indication on how the modern Empire is handling code-of-arms in the 3300s it seems like the classic shield is no longer part of that culture.


I respectfully disagree. Since ancient times, the shield has been an almost universal symbol of protection. I do believe that, of any of the super powers, the Empire would be the most likely to use it. However, we may come to the conclusion that it may not. I mean, who'd expect someone in 330X to use the masonic compass (like Patreus does)?
Amata Lirein
23 Mar 2020, 2:30pm
Fair point, though once again: that masonic compass is rather simplified. So maybe a more simplistic shape for the shield as well?

(You may find the wiki-article on escutcheons helpful for this?)

edit:

Btw: Isn't that delta I linked above kind of fulfilling the general function of an escutcheon already?
Jubei Himura
23 Mar 2020, 3:07pm
Amata LireinFair point, though once again: that masonic compass is rather simplified. So maybe a more simplistic shape for the shield as well?

(You may find the wiki-article on escutcheons helpful for this?)

edit:

Btw: Isn't that delta I linked above kind of fulfilling the general function of an escutcheon already?


Actually, we are looking into heraldry as well. I have a few friends from my SCA days that know heraldry inside and out. Good thought!
Amata Lirein
23 Mar 2020, 3:45pm
Oh, and when you guys start coloring them don't forget about the Empire's fondness for Ngadandari Fire Opals

Last edit: 23 Mar 2020, 3:51pm
User1355
23 Mar 2020, 8:47pm
Jubei HimuraAlrighty, first draft... it's late and I'm tired.

[img=412x247]https://i.imgur.com/NcLdeuy.jpg[/img]


They are excellent Jubei, very in-keeping with their style.
Gio343
28 Mar 2020, 10:39am
Itd be cool to see an imperial emblem that combines all the garnishes of the senators in one.
Expand the “shield” from Denton Petraeus as the template and put the eagle in, add stars but replace the top star from asling with the torval crown, and add the fringe from Arissa, and just a bit of wreath in the back ground to tie it together. Could work
Gio343
28 Mar 2020, 10:41am
Then have your jolly slaves give it some elbow grease and spit shine and you’re in business.

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