Elite: Lore

25 Nov 2020, 3:16am
Amata LireinWow... in all the ongoing story-arcs I totally did NOT see this coming

There are some players who accurately predicted this event. I wish I could say I was one, but I was not.
25 Nov 2020, 8:32pm
My guess is that we could see a new Alliance Ship manufacturer at some stage. New ships could be introduced which would only be accessible by going through a rank up process in the Alliance, much like you currently do in the Federation and the Empire.
26 Nov 2020, 12:53am
I'll look forward to someone injecting some element of aesthetics & common sense into Lakon's trademark... putting the pilot right out in front in a virtual fishbowl, offering them up as a target with a huge cross-hair, practically inviting a canopy breach...

Every Lakon ship I see, reminds me of an equivalent variant of a cab-over delivery van.

Great for visibility, but the only thing worse for the driver would be having them drive the thing while sitting on the front bumper.

I love my AspX, but I'm always cognizant of that & I avoid any combat or running into things.
29 Nov 2020, 3:22am
From 'Game talk', but I believe it fits better here. Context.

Vinh KruczekI disagree with "NMLA" being called "democratic revolutionaries". Ever since they bombed stations and took away a lot of civilian lives, they are nothing more but spineless terrorists with no actual political affiliation. By bombing a Federal station they just confirmed they don't seek freedom and safety but chaos and destruction, using democracy like a toilet paper.


It's hard to make a judgement on the motives of an organisation without the benefit of hindsight, but I believe it would be wrong to dismiss the stated motives of the NMLA solely on the outcome of their actions.

Based on what the game has told us the NMLA follow the Neo-Marlinist ideology, which aims to violently depose the Imperial royal family and replace them with a government of elected Senators; in brief they seek to turn the Empire into a democratic republic through means of violent revolution - hence why I labelled them as "democratic revolutionaries", as it is the most literal label.

Whether you agree with their methods or not (I hope everyone at least disagrees with bombing civillians), it doesn't change their motive - a motive that we cannot truly know without hindsight. It is, however, easy to conclude the reasons why people join the NMLA over other organisations: it is very safe to conclude that the NMLA's recruits agree with the Neo-Marlinist Ideology. There certainly are members that are murderous psychopaths that don't truly believe in Neo-Marlinism, but they would certainly be a minority, and be recent recruits. Why? Because until a few months ago the NMLA was an obscure, mostly irrelevant organisation that very few people would've heard of unless they were Marlinists. There's no shortage of chaotic and destructive organisations in the ED universe, and prior to the NMLA's sudden appearance on the galactic stage any interested in causing that just for the sake of it would join those - the Kumo Crew comes to mind as an example. This leaves the NMLA's leadership and likely the majority of their membership as actual followers of Neo-Marlinism.

It's also not hard to assume why someone would become a Neo-Marlinist - the Empire doesn't exactly have the best civil rights in the universe, and I find it unlikely that the Empire would allow much public dissent against the traditions they holds so dear. Based on this I'd say most NMLA members are marlinists who felt that peaceful and diplomatic efforts were futile against an authority such as the Empire's and that they concluded that the only way they could even begin to make progress is through violence. It doesn't matter if they're correct, it just matters that that is what they believe.

Simply put, although their actions are somewhat hypocritical, based on the information we have it would appear that the motive for the NMLA is a violent democratic revolution, as they view peaceful methods no longer effective. This motive certainly fits with most, but not all, of their attributed attacks. Most of their attacks (the irrelevant ones gameplay wise) have targeted solely government, navy and Duval targets - innocent civilians were not the targets.

The main outliers are their now 5 starport bombings.

In short; although your post, Vinh Kruczek, would make fantastic rhetoric and would be a great example of contemporary attitudes towards the NMLA, I don't think it's correct. I reckon the majority of the NMLA do follow a radically violent democratic ideology, and I also reckon that their very sudden rise to relevance is a little more than suspicious.
29 Nov 2020, 12:34pm
Vowing for democracy in Empire... Might be good, but we all should look at the broader context that needs to be understood. There is a problem to point out on who is right, as both Empire and Federation have their own dichotomy, both operating on different principles.

Federation tries to play the righteous defender of liberty and democracy, but on the other hand gives no illusion that it will sacrifice everything for numbers: the poor will be poor, and the rich will be rich, with corporations having extreme power over populists. Zachary Hudson's arrogance - very evident as depicted in the Codex - is basically "I succeeded so you all will", while ignoring hundreds if not thousands of other Zachary Hudsons like him to die of starvation, suffer in extreme poverty or do unthinkable activities just to go out from the lowest social class. It is a very good picture of the new post-1989 democracies, which are still ran by their low wages, forcing inhabitants to leave their homelands they were born in and to work abroad, in most cases disintegrating families on many levels - just to avert poverty.

On the other hand, we have Empire. On the surface looking as a stagnant monarchy with authoritarian regime, employing slaves to their bidding. The latter however needs a major correction, because a lot of people - both in-lore fictional characters as well as actual players - wrongly perceive Imperial Slavery as something wrong, mostly because of the "modern" slavery from the 19th C. America. Since Empire is heavily derive from actual Roman Empire - the ancient Roman slavery was wholly different than what ran colonial powers - foremost, the ancient version hold no xenophobia tied to it. The debt slavery had a strict code (although it wasn't free of abuse, too) that put actual obligations towards the man employing that kind of slaves. The similar system is in Empire and is, in some way, the social safety net Federation lacks.

It doesn't change the fact that both systems are the best worst systems either superpower could come up with, as Empire was founded as rejection of already broken Federal governmental, social and economical stagnation. Both systems have their own flaws and advantages, however put into very interesting light, yet not free of wrongful perception given more "modern" aspects that cloud the actual context of what both want to show. Like in Assassin's Creed Odyssey being a serious historical dichotomy as well: on one hand showing Athens as "a rightful democratic and free" state, demonizing Sparta as "these barbaric brutal guys" to some extent - yet in period you would not see women wandering freely around Athens as only slaves had lower position than women, whereas it was Sparta to have more equality among men and women, both receiving the same combat drill. Why it wasn't presented by Ubisoft? Because on how we perceive Ancient Greece as modern people, somewhat muddling the entire historical context that was harsh and brutal, yet not without ideas born of necessity which might not be understood by us: people sitting in comfy chairs, warm houses, with food being in a shop just next corner.

In the end, there is only one thing that hasn't chanced since the Ancient times: Divida et imperia. Make the civilians believe "we" are good and "they" are bad, whilst counting coin after coin, on the table made of gold and jade.


Last edit: 29 Nov 2020, 5:07pm
29 Nov 2020, 12:51pm
I want to add that the Empire itself is not as undemocratic as people think it is. Sure, it is not a democracy, but:

There are 1000 Senators in the Imperial Senate. While each of them can vote on issues, their votes are not equal. The power the vote of a senator has depends on the number of Imperial citizens s/he represents.

The powerbase of a senator are the patrons. A patron's powerbase are the clients. A client's powerbase are the citizens.

Patrons can change their support to another senator if they feel s/he would represent those under him/her better. The same is true for clients switching patrons and citizens switching clients.

Source
30 Nov 2020, 2:04am
Erisand I also reckon that their very sudden rise to relevance is a little more than suspicious.


The lady's got quite the nose. Word to the wise: Keep an eye out for black ships. They ain't yer friend.
01 Dec 2020, 5:29pm
Well... regarding the slavery - if you transport them neatly stored in cargo hold as cargo and not as human beings in passenger seats, they are not considered humans at all.
01 Dec 2020, 5:33pm
MirecUWell... regarding the slavery - if you transport them neatly stored in cargo hold as cargo and not as human beings in passenger seats, they are not considered humans at all.


For that you actually need to blame game mechanics as Imperial Slaves are a commodity.

The old games handled that better IMO as you needed to install life support to your cargo hold to be able to transport anything alive.
01 Dec 2020, 5:39pm
Well Elite tries hard to blend game mechanics with lore so the slaves are a commodity. Stripped of human rights. And it looks like the package they come with nowadays has a life support build in.
01 Dec 2020, 5:41pm
MirecUWell Elite tries hard to blend game mechanics with lore so the slaves are a commodity. Stripped of human rights. And it looks like the package they come with nowadays has a life support build in.


I wouldn't see why not... consider the current Life Pods...?
01 Dec 2020, 5:41pm
Not much life to support when you're in cryostasis...
02 Dec 2020, 4:44am
I agree with Amata. The old games had it right and in line with the lore. However, according to the lore (and Drew Wagar's books), there is still a mode of cryostasis used for long journeys - especially in ships that do not use the current jump drive.
02 Dec 2020, 5:46am
Actually, transporting slaves by cryostasis would be very imperial. The empire, as far as I'm aware, still socially expects people to treat slaves well. Although cryostasis may be what I'd expect to be an older method of transport, it's still far more efficient in keeping people healthy over distances, and it's probably better than the alternative. Imagine being transported as a slave but given no food or water with no seats or beds in a 747, no bueno. Cryostasis seems like both a cheap option, and a more pleasant option.

Also wouldn't surprise me if all areas within a ship, including cargo racks, are pressurized and climate controlled.


Last edit: 02 Dec 2020, 6:07am
02 Dec 2020, 10:48am
That raises a question for me about Passenger Cabins. Are they sealed & pressurized independently of the ship?

Post a reply

You must be signed in to post here.
Discussion about Elite:Dangerous lore, universe and anything related...