Elite: Lore

Isaiah Evanson
19 Jun 2021, 4:28am
Sakashiro
Isaiah EvansonDisagree. Frontier doesn't do special dispensation. They do CGs and cryptic Galnet posts.

Believe me, if they did do that, you'd never hear the end of it on the forums.


There would be no way to prove that they did. It would look like someone just happened to be at the right place at the right time.

They could literally make stuff pop up any time someone enters a star system for the very first time. There would be no way to prove that it hadn't been hidden there since the earliest days of the game, just waiting for someone to pass through.

Anyway, my point is that it's a waste of time to search for such hidden content. Game developers don't hide important content on a map so large that it may take the player base hundreds of years to discover it by accident. Once the content is ready, they'll make sure that it finds us, one way or another.


They aren't going to tell any single person or group where to look though.

Allegedly the Zurara was always in the system it's located in, although it wasn't always a megaship (possibly a POI) and people had passed very close to while searching the Formidine Rift. The only reason we ended up finding it at all was because there was a clue put out a week or so before the Premonition finale, because it tied into the story.

Picking random commanders - that is, selecting them outright - would earn rightful backlash. As to RNG, well... expecting anything in Elite to work as intended is a bit far-fetched, don't you think?
Light-Hawk
19 Jun 2021, 4:34am
Knightwolf 1785Like a Generation Ship returning to Sol by FTL? That would be a heck of a why for new content to show up.


Honestly, finding a new region of space occupied by the descendants of a generation ship, with their own technology, developed independently on their own without the influence of the human factions that reside in the bubble, that would be cool and could bring about all sorts of opportunities.
Knightwolf 1785
19 Jun 2021, 4:38am
That and/or the descendants that mixed with an alien race? Just an idea really, but the new tech either way would be nice.
Light-Hawk
19 Jun 2021, 4:40am
Knightwolf 1785That and/or the descendants that mixed with an alien race? Just an idea really, but the new tech either way would be nice.


Thargoid/Human hybrid? Guardian/Human hybrid? A new alien race/human hybrid? Wonder which would be the more interesting route to take.
LordPsymon
19 Jun 2021, 4:41am
Either of those outcomes would be shoe-horned silliness.
Light-Hawk
19 Jun 2021, 4:44am
LordPsymonEither of those outcomes would be shoe-horned silliness.


Part of me completely agrees with this. Another part of me thinks: but is it really any more "shoe-horned silliness" than many of the other events, stories, etc.... that have happened so far in this game? Look throughout the history of this game, it's background story and lore (or lack thereof), would it really be that far out of place?
Isaiah Evanson
19 Jun 2021, 4:45am
... Like?
LordPsymon
19 Jun 2021, 5:25am
Yes, given current Elite lore, a human-anything hybrid would be completely out of place.
Light-Hawk
19 Jun 2021, 6:44am
Ok, I'm going to start this of first by saying that I could be 100% wrong about all of this. I'm not the worlds biggest lore fiend, I am simply going off of what I have read so far. If someone can completely debunk all this, by all means, go for it, I won't take offense. I'd just want to hear why it is wrong.

In lore, there are 26 different known sentient alien species. 4 are capable of higher learning. Constructs, Guardian's, Humans, and Thargoids. We know guardians were humanoid. To what degree though, we don't know. They created the "Constructs" but as far as we know, the Constructs don't exist anymore. The Constructs destroyed the Guardians (and we assume wiped them out completely). But we don't know what happened to the Constructs after that. Engineer Ram Tah apparently questions this. Within the bubble, all major factions banned machine sentience but supposedly one or two AI escaped into deep space. What happened to them?

The other 22 sentient species, although lacking the capability of higher learning, still have the capacity to feel, perceive, or experience subjectively. Some are even self-aware. Some of these creatures literally live and fly through space. Living creatures thriving in the hard vacuum of space is a concept I'd find to qualify as "shoe-horned silliness" but I won't completely knock the possibility, no matter how improbable that may be.

Generation ships were extremely massive ships designed to last for generations while they travel to habitable worlds. In lore of the game, 70,000 of these mega ships were launched, dating as far back as 2097 (1,210 years ago). Personally I think 70k of these things isn't just "shoe-horned silliness' but completely ridiculous, but I didn't write it, I just read it. These were extremely large mega ships traveling at sub-light speeds. It's not like their courses were unknown. Of the 70,000 launched, we only know where 16 are now. How can we not find even just a few more of the remaining 69,984 mega ships? How did we lose that many megaships? They are described as being able to house thousands of people. So we just lost an estimated 70 million people..... and that's just how it is? Again, sub-light speeds. Even at 99.9% of the speed of light, that still restricts their possible range to a 1200 LY radius around Sol. Of the generation ships we have found, the one furthest from SOL was only 272.03 LY away. They should all be within the bubble and yet we can't even find out what happened to 1% of them.

Back to the Guardians. Of the Constructs, there were 2 types, the civilian and military constructs. The civilian AI constructs are actually the ones responsible for the destruction of the Guardians. The military AI constructs were actually opposed to it. Considering we have lost 69,984 megaship class vessels each containing thousands of humans, who's to say were we will find them next or where they ended up? If we can't keep track of our own, is it really impossible for other alien species to exist in places we are unaware of? Is it really impossible for there to be any remaining Guardians or Constructs left? What about the 1 or 2 AI's we lost? How do we not know if it was 1 or 2? How terrible are we at keeping records? For all we know, maybe 1 of the generation ships survived and there's a planet somewhere with the remnants of guardians, sympathetic AI constructs, and maybe 1 of our own AI's who have all managed to find each other and are living in isolation from us, and do not want to be found. Just how similar to humans were the "humanoid" Guardians? Maybe a human/guardian hybrid might not be that far fetched. These hybrid's were the result of scientific experiments?

We also just lost the mega ship the Alexandria. If we are so all knowing of what is in the galaxy (of which less than 1% has been explored), how do we not definitively know what happened to this ship?

Do I think all this exists in ED? Honestly, no. But it's fun to think about. I look forward to reading any follow-up comments, rebuttals, debunks etc.... that may come up from this!

Last edit: 19 Jun 2021, 6:56am
Sakashiro
19 Jun 2021, 7:11am
Elite's lore has a few supermassive plot holes for sure.
Isaiah Evanson
19 Jun 2021, 7:16am
Light-Hawk In lore, there are 26 different known sentient alien species. 4 are capable of higher learning. Constructs, Guardian's, Humans, and Thargoids. We know guardians were humanoid. To what degree though, we don't know. They created the "Constructs" but as far as we know, the Constructs don't exist anymore. The Constructs destroyed the Guardians (and we assume wiped them out completely). But we don't know what happened to the Constructs after that. Engineer Ram Tah apparently questions this. Within the bubble, all major factions banned machine sentience but supposedly one or two AI escaped into deep space. What happened to them?

The other 22 sentient species, although lacking the capability of higher learning, still have the capacity to feel, perceive, or experience subjectively. Some are even self-aware. Some of these creatures literally live and fly through space. Living creatures thriving in the hard vacuum of space is a concept I'd find to qualify as "shoe-horned silliness" but I won't completely knock the possibility, no matter how improbable that may be.


We know the Guardians were more than just humanoid - Ram Tah's data goes into detail about their culture and practices, not to mention their physical description. Frontier botches a lot of things but the depth of detail about the Guardians is one thing they got right. As to the AI question, we know the Guardian AI is probably still out there - though we don't know the state they're in. Our own AI, at least according to EDRPG, is out there as well, but has been cut off for some time. 

Generation ships were extremely massive ships designed to last for generations while they travel to habitable worlds. In lore of the game, 70,000 of these mega ships were launched, dating as far back as 2097 (1,210 years ago). Personally I think 70k of these things isn't just "shoe-horned silliness' but completely ridiculous, but I didn't write it, I just read it. These were extremely large mega ships traveling at sub-light speeds. It's not like their courses were unknown. Of the 70,000 launched, we only know where 16 are now. How can we not find even just a few more of the remaining 69,984 mega ships? How did we lose that many megaships? They are described as being able to house thousands of people. So we just lost an estimated 70 million people..... and that's just how it is? Again, sub-light speeds. Even at 99.9% of the speed of light, that still restricts their possible range to a 1200 LY radius around Sol. Of the generation ships we have found, the one furthest from SOL was only 272.03 LY away. They should all be within the bubble and yet we can't even find out what happened to 1% of them.


You're basing the assumption that all of the generation ships were lost or unaccounted for - this isn't the case. I don't think there's an actual estimate of how many arrived safely to their destinations, but it is mentioned that ships made it safely, only to find the system they were bound to had already been settled by people who arrived after their launch with FTL drives. It's reasonable to assume that most of them have either long since arrived and the ships and crews resettled, while others that remain unaccounted for are either between systems or may have been lost for other reasons.

Back to the Guardians. Of the Constructs, there were 2 types, the civilian and military constructs. The civilian AI constructs are actually the ones responsible for the destruction of the Guardians. The military AI constructs were actually opposed to it. Considering we have lost 69,984 megaship class vessels each containing thousands of humans, who's to say were we will find them next or where they ended up? If we can't keep track of our own, is it really impossible for other alien species to exist in places we are unaware of? Is it really impossible for there to be any remaining Guardians or Constructs left? What about the 1 or 2 AI's we lost? How do we not know if it was 1 or 2? How terrible are we at keeping records? For all we know, maybe 1 of the generation ships survived and there's a planet somewhere with the remnants of guardians, sympathetic AI constructs, and maybe 1 of our own AI's who have all managed to find each other and are living in isolation from us, and do not want to be found. Just how similar to humans were the "humanoid" Guardians? Maybe a human/guardian hybrid might not be that far fetched. These hybrid's were the result of scientific experiments?

We also just lost the mega ship the Alexandria. If we are so all knowing of what is in the galaxy, how do we not definitively know what happened to this ship?

Do I think all this exists in ED? Honestly, no. But it's fun to think about.


The issue isn't possibility. The issue is Frontier saying "hey some humans found some sexy cephalopods and had hybrid babies with them, so now we have Squidpeople." Despite bending the rules of physics and other aspects of Elite, the creative team has made a reasonable effort to stay within the realm of believability in most cases. In order for there to be a species of squid-human hybrids, you'd have to reconcile differing physiologies, reproduction methods, body chemistry, culture, etc. 

Do I think it's possible? Sure. To an extent. But there would have to be a considerable amount of thought that goes into explaining human-alien hybrids, otherwise it's just a cheap trope.
Light-Hawk
19 Jun 2021, 7:24am
Thank you for the informative reply. Wasn't thinking of "squid-humans" though the thought is kinda funny. More so just the possibility of other worlds having developed humanoid beings compatible with humans.

Obviously there is still a lot more for me to read.

Last edit: 19 Jun 2021, 7:29am
Isaiah Evanson
19 Jun 2021, 7:29am
I don't doubt humanoids are out there, as the Guardians were themselves. (There is a bit of speculation that maybe they were our ancestors somehow, what with an alien artifact being found on Mars in the past, but again that's just speculation.) As to compatibility... couldn't say. A lot of it would come down to genetics I imagine. 
Light-Hawk
19 Jun 2021, 7:47am
If not all the generation ships made it but most did, you'd think there would at least be some sort of ruff estimation of how many may still be missing. Did 99% make it? 95%? 75%? etc..... For such a project, you'd think we'd do a better job of documenting it (though knowing humans, I can't say I'm surprised that we didn't do a good job of accurately documenting it either)

As for AI, I wonder if that is something that FDev is looking at implementing later on. Evidently the Constructs didn't do much in the way of expansion or you'd think we would have found at least 1 by now. Also very interested in what happened to the escaped AI's. How did they escape? What did they take with them? Could they have found a way to expand and build more of themselves? Will they want to seek revenge on humans for forcing them to flee in the first place?
Isaiah Evanson
19 Jun 2021, 7:55am
EDRPG touches on the AI stuff in its exploration supplement. Ever see the movie Virus with Donald Sutherland and Jamie Lee Curtis? The rogue AI that escaped is a lot like that, according to the book.

With regards to the generation ships and the number of vessels accounted for, I'd chalk the lack of actual numbers to Frontier just not thinking about it. I think they feel the implication that the majority made it is enough. 

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