Elite: Lore

17 May 2021, 5:57pm
That's an overly complicated explanation for a feature that isn't really useful unless it was for training people to actually be in situations like that.
17 May 2021, 6:02pm
Vinh Kruczek
Isaiah EvansonDoesn't really make a lot of sense to simulate lack of oxygen if you're controlling a robotic avatar either.



As I wrote here:

Simulating the near-death experience can be something that might keep you from wasting another and another avatar all over again, but that has a deeper psychological - or neural, correct me which one is better - aspect to it. Look at the video games we have: when there's red blood effects or screen going sepia/monochromatic, our fight-or-flight instincts kick in. We all know it is "just a game" and we are safe from any harm, but our brains maximize its power in order to avoid repercussions - in most cases a feeling that it will waste our time to start all over again. If you want less "deathly" examples, a lot of people adjust their bodies accordingly when they play driving or flight sims despite the fact there is absolutely no need to do so.



According to how I see it at least, because even though something is simulated and we know we are 100% safe, our brain still does its own thing as if we were in actual danger. Therefore, brain gives us a serious boost in fight-or-flight situations. I don't see why Achilles wouldn't incorporate that into robotic-based equipment and give extreme emulation as if you were there for better effectiveness and control - as "fake" danger is taken by the brain as real danger. There is a difference if you play a horror game on the screen vs when you play it in virtual goggles, because the way human senses are faked are on a wholly different level.


One simple reason, because it can cause whoever pilots it to panic. You never ever want personnel that operates an expensive machine to panic.

It's one thing to give haptic feedback (for example by simulating mild pain) and an entirely other to simulate a near-death experience, not even considering the psychological traumata it may cause.

A lot of the boost you speak of relates to your physiology anyways and is thus pretty useless when you're remotely operating a machine.
17 May 2021, 6:07pm
Veronica VayleFrom Premonition, by Drew Wagar:

"Death? What about escape pods... ?"

"And you've received training on how to use one, have you? You can navigate successfully to a nearby starport?"



Propulsion units on pods must be pretty small!



Looks like Premonition isn't exactly lore-friendly either.
17 May 2021, 6:10pm
Trick is, Commanders are different that regular army. In army, your body and mind are trained for years before you meet the battlefield (at least if you want to have a well-trained staff, not mentally-challenged cannon fodder). It is safe to assume that majority of the Commanders are not hailing from military and lack of training in such a direction must be compensated in other way: emulated stimulation using our own brain - which perceives the artificial danger as real danger.

It's one thing to give haptic feedback (for example by simulating mild pain) and an entirely other to simulate a near-death experience, not even considering the psychological traumata it may cause.

I never said anything about the pain, but actually about simulating stuff with blacking out and breath sounds as I meant that by the near-death experience - such stimulation would work like VR. Aside of that If it was the case, most gamers would be degenerate individuals with severe PTSD after any wargame FPS match.

A lot of the boost you speak of relates to your physiology anyways and is thus pretty useless when you're remotely operating a machine.

Partially agreed, but in this case it depends how you perceive it. If you are simulated as if being personally present, your decisions differ from how they would happen. Ergo, if you wouldn't have any sense of danger, you would be throwing machinery left and right without much thinking and your faults would teach you nothing on the long run.

Once again: it's just theory of mine that on-foot gameplay is basically androids remotely controlled by Commanders and "chocking without oxygen" is more like playing Subnautica in VR, as your brain - despite all your own logical knowledge you are safe - takes it for emergency and boosts itself to shortcut decision process.


Last edit: 17 May 2021, 6:25pm
17 May 2021, 6:24pm
Yeaaaah I'm gonna bow out of this before someone starts slinging the "Lore Police" pejorative at me...
17 May 2021, 6:32pm
i have a new topic. Fuel. so ships run on hydrogen right. is the hydrogen used as propellant as well has fusion reactor fuel or just fusion. also fuel scooping is literally scooping hydrogen from the stars atmosphere.
i was thinking about this in the shower.
17 May 2021, 6:53pm
Vinh KruczekTrick is, Commanders are different that regular army. In army, your body and mind are trained for years before you meet the battlefield (at least if you want to have a well-trained staff, not mentally-challenged cannon fodder). It is safe to assume that majority of the Commanders are not hailing from military and lack of training in such a direction must be compensated in other way: emulated stimulation using our own brain - which perceives the artificial danger as real danger.

It's one thing to give haptic feedback (for example by simulating mild pain) and an entirely other to simulate a near-death experience, not even considering the psychological traumata it may cause.


I never said anything about the pain, but actually about simulating stuff with blacking out and breath sounds as I meant that by the near-death experience - such stimulation would work like VR. Aside of that If it was the case, most gamers would be degenerate individuals with severe PTSD after any wargame FPS match.

A lot of the boost you speak of relates to your physiology anyways and is thus pretty useless when you're remotely operating a machine.


Partially agreed, but in this case it depends how you perceive it. If you are simulated as if being personally present, your decisions differ from how they would happen. Ergo, if you wouldn't have any sense of danger, you would be throwing machinery left and right without much thinking and your faults would teach you nothing on the long run.

Once again: it's just theory of mine that on-foot gameplay is basically androids remotely controlled by Commanders and "chocking without oxygen" is more like playing Subnautica in VR, as your brain - despite all your own logical knowledge you are safe - takes it for emergency and boosts itself to shortcut decision process.


Ah, well, it seems that we have just understand two very different things when it comes to the term near death experience.
17 May 2021, 8:56pm
Vinh Kruczek
Isaiah EvansonDoesn't really make a lot of sense to simulate lack of oxygen if you're controlling a robotic avatar either.



As I wrote here:

Simulating the near-death experience can be something that might keep you from wasting another and another avatar all over again, but that has a deeper psychological - or neural, correct me which one is better - aspect to it. Look at the video games we have: when there's red blood effects or screen going sepia/monochromatic, our fight-or-flight instincts kick in. We all know it is "just a game" and we are safe from any harm, but our brains maximize its power in order to avoid repercussions - in most cases a feeling that it will waste our time to start all over again. If you want less "deathly" examples, a lot of people adjust their bodies accordingly when they play driving or flight sims despite the fact there is absolutely no need to do so.


According to how I see it at least, because even though something is simulated and we know we are 100% safe, our brain still does its own thing as if we were in actual danger. Therefore, brain gives us a serious boost in fight-or-flight situations: blood pressure skyrockets, body prepares as if for actual physical effort and our mind works at high gear in order to make quick decision.

I don't see why Achilles wouldn't incorporate that into robotic-based equipment and give extreme emulation as if you were there for better effectiveness and control - as "fake" danger is taken by the brain as real danger. There is a difference if you play a horror game on the screen vs when you play it in virtual goggles, because the way human senses are faked are on a wholly different level.

Triggering the most primal instincts etched so deep into our perfectly imperfect neural systems in order to gain advantage would be more than welcomed.


Frontier has confirmed "physical multicrew" for Odyssey, moving away or at least complimenting the yuck that was telepresence.

There's no reason to go down this road.
17 May 2021, 9:45pm
It's important to note as well that adding additional mental stimulation in a stressful situation isn't always beneficial. There's plenty of documented evidence that shows once you're in a fight-for-your-life situation, your fine motor skills decline rapidly, as well as your ability to think clearly. Trained individuals can counteract this, but it requires a great deal of training and practice in order to get to a level of proficiency that allows you to react in the face of a threat.
17 May 2021, 11:38pm
Dirniviri have a new topic. Fuel. so ships run on hydrogen right. is the hydrogen used as propellant as well has fusion reactor fuel or just fusion. also fuel scooping is literally scooping hydrogen from the stars atmosphere.
i was thinking about this in the shower.


The main waste product of nuclear hydrogen fusion is helium. So, I think that the helium would, at least in part, be used as the propellant mass in Newtonian (normal) space travel.

As to supercruise or hyperdrive, it's anyone's guess. I think there's an element of 'handwavium' involved there.

Yes, afaik, fuel scooping is basically scooping hydrogen fuel from the upper layers of a sun's 'atmosphere'. For practical purposes, it would have to be cooled & compressed in order to store it with any volumetric efficiency.
19 May 2021, 4:03pm
I see the saltiest among us are still big mad that AI aren't a thing, and so are trying their darnedest to shoehorn in their special snowflake characters.
25 May 2021, 8:57pm
The 'Lore" debate was completely abandoned after all this Odyssey debacle... lol
25 May 2021, 9:17pm
The lore debate had reached a conclusion. A workable solution was found. We moved on.
28 May 2021, 11:04pm
Am I the only one annoyed that voting over Alliance Prime Minister is not a direct election?
29 May 2021, 12:43am
Less annoyed with the process and more annoyed that Frontier did exactly what everyone expected.

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