Elite: Lore

13 Jul 2021, 1:31pm
Wulthuslarger degree of economic liberty

...until you make a mistake, become bankrupt and find yourself turned into a slave.
13 Jul 2021, 1:33pm
Meowers...until you make a mistake, become bankrupt and find yourself turned into a slave.


You don't find yourself turned into a slave, it is a voluntary system. Having debt isn't what is looked down upon, it is remaining in debt and not being able to pay it off. Also at least there is a system in place that allows you to recover unlike the Federation where you are just screwed.
13 Jul 2021, 2:07pm
I'm starting to notice that any 'benefits' of living under any superpower are mostly discussed only in comparison to another superpower. Is that because they're actually full of downsides when put out of that context?

(rhetorical, irony)
13 Jul 2021, 2:40pm
Light-Hawk
Meowers...until you make a mistake, become bankrupt and find yourself turned into a slave.



You don't find yourself turned into a slave, it is a voluntary system. Having debt isn't what is looked down upon, it is remaining in debt and not being able to pay it off. Also at least there is a system in place that allows you to recover unlike the Federation where you are just screwed.


No, you absolutely can be forced into slavery. OOSqueekys post on the last page mentions that.
13 Jul 2021, 3:09pm
Rebecca Hail It is absolutely possible to employ more people and still have a lower economic output. Employment and economic output correlate over a number of factors. Quality of life is better in the Empire, but that doesn't mean that it's economy is stronger. It's simply not something you can accurately judge without hard numbers.

...As for the imps always winning, that's flat out not true. The Federation used to crush the Empire in every combat CG that happened between the two of them.


So, you acknowledge that the Empire employs more citizens and gives them a higher quality of life' but nope, still possible the Federation has a better economy... Yeah nah, sorry. Until hard numbers do come out you're just going to have to accept the fact that all the evidence leans towards the Empire being the better economy.

Side note: FGS is not the counterpart to the Clipper. The FAS is obviously the closer counterpart to it. L2 interpret a given premise appropriately if you want to be taken seriously in return.

As for your 'muh CGs' point: :lul: RL player interaction towards individual events equate how to in game bubble-wide economies?
13 Jul 2021, 3:26pm
Burstar
So, you acknowledge that the Empire employs more citizens and gives them a higher quality of life' but nope, still possible the Federation has a better economy... Yeah nah, sorry. Until hard numbers do come out you're just going to have to accept the fact that all the evidence leans towards the Empire being the better economy.


What are you even arguing when you say "better economy" if you're basing them on employment and quality of life? What I'm arguing is gross domestic product and industrial output, not welfare and general prosperity.

So if you want to be as condescending as you are atm, at least try to make an argument that isn't a) entirely based on unfounded assumptions like "federal ports are poorer because ?" and b) at least defined enough that it's possible to argue against it.


Side note: FGS is not the counterpart to the Clipper. The FAS is obviously the closer counterpart to it. L2 interpret a given premise appropriately if you want to be taken seriously in return.


The same argument is applicable to the FAS. If you're not able to understand a simple analogy about your vague ship quality argument, then maybe you're not the right person to tell other people to "L2 interpret given premises".


As for your 'muh CGs' point: :lul: RL player interaction towards individual events equate how to in game bubble-wide economies?


It just disproves your point about the imps always winning. It's not true lorewise either, but given your style of arguing I doubt that you care much.

I know that you're capable of having a civil discussion, so please stop acting like a condescending prick.
13 Jul 2021, 3:58pm
I still haven't seen a credible source as to how Fed stations look more "run down" than Imperial ones. If anything, you're seeing a difference in aesthetics - Federal stations and ships tend to have a more industrial feel, while Imperial stations and ships feel more... handcrafted? Though that doesn't speak much to the difference in quality, if any.

I'd also need to see some evidence to back up the "Imp ships outclass Fed ships" argument.
13 Jul 2021, 9:53pm
Rebecca Hail I know that you're capable of having a civil discussion, so please stop acting like a condescending prick.


Then actually contribute to the discussion by having a counter argument of your own instead of just saying "i don't like your reasoning behind your simple at least plausibly supported opinion that I've actually forgotten and can't be bothered to go back and re read but respect is important to me true story".

As for the station conditions: they are affected by in game modifiers like states, population satisfaction, and economy size. If you haven't noticed this that's on you. Being an Empire station is one of those modifiers that improves Station condition / announcer politeness etc that Drew Wagar has commented on in the past as part of the good immersive elements of the Elite world. I'm not going to go digging for it though i suspect it's in teh 'history of' video. Believe me or not, I don't care. Just pay attention in the future and when it clicks send me a thank you message.
13 Jul 2021, 10:01pm
Burstar
Rebecca Hail I know that you're capable of having a civil discussion, so please stop acting like a condescending prick.



Then actually contribute to the discussion by having a counter argument of your own instead of just saying "i don't like your reasoning behind your simple at least plausibly supported opinion that I've actually forgotten and can't be bothered to go back and re read but respect is important to me true story".

As for the station conditions: they are affected by in game modifiers like states, population satisfaction, and economy size. If you haven't noticed this that's on you. Being an Empire station is one of those modifiers that improves Station condition / announcer politeness etc that Drew Wagar has commented on in the past as part of the good immersive elements of the Elite world. I'm not going to go digging for it though i suspect it's in teh 'history of' video. Believe me or not, I don't care. Just pay attention in the future and when it clicks send me a thank you message.


Sorry to disappoint here, but the game doesn't actually reflect this. My homeport of Stephens Enterprise in Burojinura is an Imperial starport, but on occasion the hangar I got assigned to is quite dirty with bent pipes, empty pizza boxes and cups lying on the floor between the pad itself and the lifts.

It does get reflected in the codex though, mentioning that the streets and corridors in Fedneck settlements and stations are often filled with graffitis and the homeless.
13 Jul 2021, 10:06pm
I get that people are trying to split hairs and argue that one side is better than the other...

But they're really not. They're just different expressions of varying degrees of authoritarianism. It's like arguing over flavors of cyanide-laced ice cream. Fed, Imp, Alliance - they'll kill you or get you killed just the same. Just a question of how and how fast.
13 Jul 2021, 10:09pm
In case of the Fed-vs-Empire argument I think it boils more down to what you consider more important: personal freedoms or social security.
13 Jul 2021, 10:15pm
Amata LireinSorry to disappoint here, but the game doesn't actually reflect this. My homeport of Stephens Enterprise in Burojinura is an Imperial starport, but on occasion the hangar I got assigned to is quite dirty with bent pipes, empty pizza boxes and cups lying on the floor between the pad itself and the lifts.

It does get reflected in the codex though, mentioning that the streets and corridors in Fedneck settlements and stations are often filled with graffitis and the homeless.


Yeah unfortunately Odyssey material could just be a bug, overlooked, or worse the new team has given up or on even this small element.

Xeknos I'd also need to see some evidence to back up the "Imp ships outclass Fed ships" argument.


I have a better idea:

Imp. Eagle vs. (NA)
FGS vs (NA)
FAS vs. Clipper
Corvette vs. Cutter

You come up with an argument that claims the Federal equivalent is better than the Imp one in any of these pairings and we'll talk.
13 Jul 2021, 10:19pm
Isaiah EvansonI get that people are trying to split hairs and argue that one side is better than the other...

But they're really not. They're just different expressions of varying degrees of authoritarianism. It's like arguing over flavors of cyanide-laced ice cream. Fed, Imp, Alliance - they'll kill you or get you killed just the same. Just a question of how and how fast.


You're right. For those uninterested to look further than the nearest paycheck and a full plate, it doesn't matter really. For all others, well... the differences betwen those "authoritarianisms" are crucial. We're talking about societies built on conflicting principles, and outcomes of that.
13 Jul 2021, 10:26pm
That's pretty rich considering that all of them will throw bodies and innocent lives into the grinder for their "differences."

Evil is evil, period. 
14 Jul 2021, 2:27am
Yeah, the Empire doesn't like "differences" and would go with everyone being a freaking clone. *shivers* So cold and boring for an ideal civilization view.

Dr. Doom at least let people be themselves. To a point that is. >.>

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