Inara updates, bug reports, requests

I don't think it's entitlement. Just someone looking to manage their Wing how they see fit rather than how a website dictates them to do so.

I can see Arties worry about getting an abundance of overmanaged Wings but I see that as the problem of the Wings not Artie to be honest.

26 Oct 2016, 11:16pm

Entitlement? Wow.

This site is predicated on user feedback and frequent administrative updates. The very thread we are having this discussion in is MEANT for topics such as these. This isn't entitlement, this is standard operating procedure for the site. The same is true of Elite: Dangerous itself. Makes sense that Artie runs this site in a manner that encourages discussion that could lead toward positive change.

Luke, yeah. I get that concern to a certain extent. This site is usually good at considering abuse of its systems and trying to preempt that with safeguards and such. But yeah, the choice about how many leaders we have starting out definitely seems like something we should be allowed to control on our end.

Elite and INARA both encourage Roleplay. That is part of what this comes down to. In the game world we have characters with certain career paths who are in charge of certain things. My character is the Chief Financial Officer and has no business meddling in the paramilitary arm of the corporation. So I need that paramilitary officer to have control over the private discussions and wing missions here on INARA regarding the people flying under that arm. I also need the CEO and CAO to have access. They have their own responsibilities. The current system in INARA only allows for us to have two people to interact with the Wing as "admins". We need these four in order to run our Corporation as we have designed it.

Whether or not Artie is willing to work with us is entirely up to Artie. Some of you need to stop thinking I am trying to tell Artie what to do. This is a reasonable discussion about an issue we'd like resolved. If you don't have anything helpful to say then please don't chime in.

Or more of you can hop on here and take jabs at me personally like Xeknos here. Why not, eh?

26 Oct 2016, 11:35pm

Lord HexiasOr more of you can hop on here and take jabs at me personally like Xeknos here. Why not, eh?

They say you should play to your strengths...

Lord HexiasWhether or not Artie is willing to work with us is entirely up to Artie. Some of you need to stop thinking I am trying to tell Artie what to do. This is a reasonable discussion about an issue we'd like resolved. If you don't have anything helpful to say then please don't chime in.

Except he's already laid out a fairly reasonable response to your request. Consider his workload - should he put in the extra time and add a new feature to the site simply because one wing somehow can't run without it? Or should he spend more time on features/updates that all of us can use?

Last edit: 26 Oct 2016, 11:40pm

Entr0pist

26 Oct 2016, 11:44pm

I'm here to report a small issue with engineer blueprints. In Beam Lasers: Short Range Blaster Class 2, the Distributor Draw and Thermal Load stats are backwards.

26 Oct 2016, 11:48pm

Obviously his response wasn't enough or I wouldn't have posted a follow-up. He simply stated that he's concerned with "overmanaged" wings. I am challenging that assertion in a respectable manner. You know, by having a conversation. Let him speak for himself as to how much time he has to help us out.

And, apparently, you haven't been reading what I am typing. Had you been doing so, you would see specifically why the current set up isn't working. We aren't being arbitrary. We just have a different set up than most and all I am trying to do is see if we can adjust things a bit so that we can keep our Wing here on a site we all use and find amazing. If Artie forces us to change the way we want to play the game of Elite in order to remain a Wing on INARA than so be it.

26 Oct 2016, 11:49pm

Lord HexiasObviously his response wasn't enough or I wouldn't have posted a follow-up. He simply stated that he's concerned with "overmanaged" wings. I am challenging that assertion in a respectable manner. You know, by having a conversation. Let him speak for himself as to how much time he has to help us out.

And, apparently, you haven't been reading what I am typing. Had you been doing so, you would see specifically why the current set up isn't working. We aren't being arbitrary. We just have a different set up than most and all I am trying to do is see if we can adjust things a bit so that we can keep our Wing here on a site we all use and find amazing. If Artie forces us to change the way we want to play the game of Elite in order to remain a Wing on INARA than so be it.

So you're trying to unnecessarily increase his workload because you want to play special panda. Got it.

27 Oct 2016, 12:37am

Unnecessary to you, sure, but obviously you only seem to care about yourself and making Artie out to be a victim, but why?

Look, this is a simple request we are making and nowhere in my comments before now have said anything about Artie needing to drop everything he is doing to service our needs. This is a basic conversation to see what he thinks about taking a look at how rights and ranks are distributed in Wings. That's all. Stop making this a bigger issue than it is.

27 Oct 2016, 12:44am

Lord HexiasUnnecessary to you, sure, but obviously you only seem to care about yourself and making Artie out to be a victim, but why?

Look, this is a simple request we are making and nowhere in my comments before now have said anything about Artie needing to drop everything he is doing to service our needs. This is a basic conversation to see what he thinks about taking a look at how rights and ranks are distributed in Wings. That's all. Stop making this a bigger issue than it is.

Sounds like he already gave you an answer. Sorry you didn't like it.

27 Oct 2016, 1:07am

You are probably just trolling me because you have nothing better to do but I don't either right now so I'll bite.

He did answer and I replied. It is called, as I said a moment ago, having a conversation. He expressed his reasonable concern over Wing's being disproportional in the ratio of leaders to members. To alleviate his concerns I have provided specifics of our situation to demonstrate that we aren't trying to arbitrarily rank individuals who haven't earned it. Maybe he's willing to work with us a bit, maybe he's not. Why do you care? Do you object to the feedback forum being used to have productive discourse about the functionality of this website?

LordPsymon Inara supporter

27 Oct 2016, 1:49am

Artie, I have an enquiry, more out of curiosity than a request, but would it be a lot of work to add a feature that lets me sort my logbooks into categories? E.g. a category for each story arc or something like that, so if someone clicks a category they can see the logbook entries assigned to that category?

So like, for example:

Datura goes to the store:
Chapter 1
Chapter 2
Etc

Datura makes some toast:
Chapter 1
Chapter 2
Etc

I hope that explains my query, I'm not particularly good at putting ideas into words.

Last edit: 27 Oct 2016, 5:45am

27 Oct 2016, 1:55am

Lord HexiasYou are probably just trolling me because you have nothing better to do but I don't either right now so I'll bite.

He did answer and I replied. It is called, as I said a moment ago, having a conversation. He expressed his reasonable concern over Wing's being disproportional in the ratio of leaders to members. To alleviate his concerns I have provided specifics of our situation to demonstrate that we aren't trying to arbitrarily rank individuals who haven't earned it. Maybe he's willing to work with us a bit, maybe he's not. Why do you care? Do you object to the feedback forum being used to have productive discourse about the functionality of this website?

Not at all. The thing I object to, though, is pressing an issue - which would really only benefit you - after Artie already politely declined your request. I mean, it seems like you made your case and he didn't find much merit in it. Pushing for it simply because "our wing won't work well" without it is kind of silly, considering how there are hundreds of other wings who work just fine without it.

I get that there's a polite discourse, and that's great, but just because the conversation is polite doesn't necessarily mean he has to automatically grant it because ONE wing out of hundreds decides they can't work around it. Like I said, do we want him to spend time making this change for you specifically (and I'm not sure how much experience you have in web design) or would we rather him spend his time implementing changes more of us would find useful, like Simon's request for categories?

In truth, I'm not much of a troll, though I do like how that word gets thrown around so easily on this internet of ours these days.

27 Oct 2016, 2:41am

The word troll is easily tossed around when someone comments on the person posting instead of the post itself. This most recent post is the first time you've contributed usefully to the topic, hence I used this specific noun to describe your behavior. Now we can actually get somewhere.

I don't understand why you view me as some sort of selfish brat who is making insufferable demands. I think you misunderstand the motives here behind my discourse with Artie. I also don't know where you are getting this idea that I am demanding he do it right now instead of more important things. When did I demand immediate service from him? If he wants to help us out, I am sure it will be up to Artie to decide when he has the time, not you or me.

This is the story: My friends and I made a private group based on a bit of roleplay in game and a "Corporate" theme. We have four leaders with specific responsibilities both in game and outside of it that match this theme. As many players have done, we discovered INARA and immediately made it a central part of how we play. This is a great place. Anyway, we didn't "suddenly decide" the system didn't work for us. We've tried for several weeks now to try and make what is there function for us but it simply doesn't. As it stands if we have changes that need to be made to certain things everyone has to wait for me or the Wing Commander to get on. Our CMO and CEO can't actually get on and do anything inside of the Wing. We need them to be able to work with complete leadership credentials on certain things. Furthermore, we have three "Flight Leader" ranked individuals with people in their flights that we can't make because of the limit of two we are restricted by. That's it. No weird motives or arbitrary demands.

I know quite a bit about website design and html. I haven't looked into the source of this site myself so I can't speculate as to how difficult making exceptions is or creating an alternate Wing structure concept would be.

AdmlAdama

27 Oct 2016, 3:09am

Kyndi the Badass Space Chick

I think both of your positions have been made pretty clearly. The rest is up to Artie and nothing to be gained by further hashing it out here.

Best wishes to both of you Commanders

27 Oct 2016, 3:47am

AdmlAdamaI think both of your positions have been made pretty clearly. The rest is up to Artie and nothing to be gained by further hashing it out here.

Best wishes to both of you Commanders

I'm afraid not. Their dispute must be settled the in Old Way:

Xeknos and Hexias will present themselves before the assembled tribe and interpretive dance battle in loincloths until Chief Artie declares a victor.

Stargrease

27 Oct 2016, 3:49am