Elite: General talk

Igneel Prime
27 Jan 2021, 8:20am
BurstarIf combat logging didn't render you invulnerable then you have 15 seconds to kill them and if the attacker can't within that timeframe then that's on them


This part I have to thoroughly disagree with. Time to kill (ttk) is an interesting matter. In Elite the ttk is relatively high. Even engineered PvP ships often can't kill their targets in 15 seconds or less. Just yesterday I had a wonderful experience verifying that. I was doing PP stuff in my unengineered Type-9 and was returning to my carrier, which in my infinite wisdom parked in the PP HQ (Zachary Hudson for Pacifiers). While incredible smart me was trying to prepare the carrier jump in supercruise (all in open) I got interdicted by a Mamba (frag build, most likely Pacifiers but I didn't check). I jumped out with 34% hull. So even if the target makes silly mistakes like going to a ganked system and just casually looking at a different screen in supercruise while in an easily killable ship, those 15 seconds alone at least certainly aren't enough. Either that or that guy really was a noob lol.

That aside. What I meant by punishment by rebuy screen was exactly what you were trying to suggest I believe. The fact that your ship remains in space and vulnerable is what gets you killed and gets you that rebuy screen. If it's a desync you are still there and in control. If it's a CL you die because your ship is still there getting shot at.
Burstar
27 Jan 2021, 8:59am
Igneel Prime That aside. What I meant by punishment by rebuy screen was exactly what you were trying to suggest I believe. The fact that your ship remains in space and vulnerable is what gets you killed and gets you that rebuy screen. If it's a desync you are still there and in control. If it's a CL you die because your ship is still there getting shot at.


Ah, I read it as if they DC their ship gets destroyed. Keep in mind 'rebuys' aren't teh only form of punishment. The repair bill also costs credits so in effect counts as a punishment. Also, the indignity of combat logging and the inconvenience it entails are both unpleasant for that person I'm sure. If they are the kind of person that ganks and CLs when beaten I assure you they lose any credibility in the community they associate with. Rebuys can be thought of as putting the knee to the neck of someone you already have down and out.
Igneel Prime
27 Jan 2021, 9:37am
The thing with the rebuys is it's the most direct. If the ship has 30-60mil rebuy and the player keeps on CLing even high end income will take a hit. But if it happens once because of a DC even poorer players can take that hit. After all you should never fly without rebuy. Repair costs on the other hand? The couple 100k? If anything the inconvenience of restarting is annoying but just repair costs isn't enough punishment I think. Some people might do it as last resort and not like it themselves, in which case what you said about credibility and indignity is correct. Others however don't care in which case that rebuy is the one language they understand.
Rat Catcher
27 Jan 2021, 12:37pm
So is it still Combat Logging if the ship that leaves ungracefully didn't have guns in the first place?

I do enjoy these circular discussions both here and on the forum... I guess it must be a boring time in the game again.

Although from tomorrow there will be a new, harder to solve lore-based puzzle to appy our brains to
Igneel Prime
27 Jan 2021, 1:46pm
Rat CatcherSo is it still Combat Logging if the ship that leaves ungracefully didn't have guns in the first place?


Yes. CL is merely about exiting the game ungracefully while in combat. Whether the combat is fair or not, voluntary or not doesn't matter.
Rat Catcher
27 Jan 2021, 3:49pm
Igneel Prime
Rat CatcherSo is it still Combat Logging if the ship that leaves ungracefully didn't have guns in the first place?



Yes. CL is merely about exiting the game ungracefully while in combat. Whether the combat is fair or not, voluntary or not doesn't matter.


Yep, combat, I got guns, you ain't...  Still combat, my dude...

Hilarious

ETA: It is a game, it isn't important that a pretty explosion didn't happen, just shrug and get on with playing, you won!
We are all allegeldy adult (or playing from age 7 - which may explain some attitudes) and should be able to handle rejection, surely?

Last edit: 27 Jan 2021, 4:05pm
Dirant Harris
27 Jan 2021, 6:08pm
Rat Catcher
Igneel Prime
Rat CatcherSo is it still Combat Logging if the ship that leaves ungracefully didn't have guns in the first place?




Yes. CL is merely about exiting the game ungracefully while in combat. Whether the combat is fair or not, voluntary or not doesn't matter.



Yep, combat, I got guns, you ain't...  Still combat, my dude...

Hilarious


If you're in Open unarmed that's on you, sir... Same thing if you fly without rebuy. Do not blame pvpers for choosing the efficient way to take someone down and loot them.

This goes for those complaining about lack of RP in pvp, hoping agressors will be stupid enough to spend time negotiating so local forces can arrive in time...
Spud_
27 Jan 2021, 10:26pm
Dirant Harris
Rat Catcher
Igneel Prime



Yes. CL is merely about exiting the game ungracefully while in combat. Whether the combat is fair or not, voluntary or not doesn't matter.




Yep, combat, I got guns, you ain't...  Still combat, my dude...

Hilarious



If you're in Open unarmed that's on you, sir... Same thing if you fly without rebuy. Do not blame pvpers for choosing the efficient way to take someone down and loot them.

This goes for those complaining about lack of RP in pvp, hoping agressors will be stupid enough to spend time negotiating so local forces can arrive in time...


When I am in my hauler unarmed and shiedless, I fly in open, yes I have been pirated a few times, so be it, I dont complain about that at all. Part of the game. Have made a couple friends actually. The ones I do mind are those that think killing baby seals is just plain cool.
Rat Catcher
27 Jan 2021, 11:15pm
Dirant Harris. Do not blame pvpers for choosing the efficient way to take someone down and loot them.


Piracy I agree with completely...

...but if a 'PvP' player shoots someone down, there is nothing left to loot.  We all know that. (unless things have changed in the recent past, that is!)

Spud_ When I am in my hauler unarmed and shiedless, I fly in open, yes I have been pirated a few times, so be it, I dont complain about that at all. Part of the game. Have made a couple friends actually. The ones I do mind are those that think killing baby seals is just plain cool.



I've been pirated jst the once, a couple of years ago, in the main nowadays it is just 'try to pop the ship' and particularly boring and pointless for me (I'm sure the other player is ecstatic...), particularly as the ships I fly are built to survive (comes from having a known ganker and a bunch of PvP players as squadron mates - good build advice!) so play the evasion game for 15 seconds or so... (I have lost a couple of ships in the last 3 years to other players, usually when I make a mistake)

Nice chatting with you
Zentzlb
28 Jan 2021, 12:23am
Nkizo Baxter
ZentzlbIts funny that you are trying to defend combat logging by arguing a lack of RP but the vast majority of combat logs are committed by CMDRs in engineered, large combat vessels in res sites and CZs where PVP is supposed to happen.


You connected two unrelated things from two unrelated posts and that's where my discussion with you ends.


You are the one that DMed me claiming that I was CMDR Red House. Your skills of deduction are quite superb CMDR. You should take your findings to the PvP community and inform them that a cheater is in their midst! I can even link you the discord servers if you like.
Igneel Prime
28 Jan 2021, 7:11am
I think it's funny how some people try to argue against pvp/ganking with "Other players shouldn't dictate how I have to play the game if I want to be in open" and then follow that up with or just argue the following without the first bit "There is no point to combat" "I think it's boring" "You're just blowing up a ship". A bit hypocritical.

Either way it is something that people can do in this game and some people like doing it. CL is the single thing that genuinely ruins the fun for those people because no matter what they do every single target theoretically has the option to just nope out. That just makes this part of the game that is already just there for lols very tedious.

Yet if something happens to their gameplay, be that exploration, bounty hunting, mining, trading, whatever, the first thing you hear is "whaaaaaaaaa bug break game, big sad, FDev fix NOW!!!!"

Would I like there to be more to it than just blowing up a ship? A bit. Do I care more about being able to do it without players cheating their way out? Absolutely.
Sakashiro
28 Jan 2021, 8:16am
I sort of combat-logged once. I had just undocked from an engineer base, my Courier was in an unfinished state, when I registered another ship nearby and realized that I was still in open. So I boosted away across the planet surface, just to get out of sensor range. I was about to land and collect some raw materials when the other ship appeared again. Apparently the pilot had been looking for me. But instead of shooting at me, they rammed me. While that made their intentions clear, the game did not count it as combat, so I simply logged out without the 15 seconds delay.
Episparh
28 Jan 2021, 8:39am
I menu logged from AX CZ once... in solo. Repurposed the connda after that.

The thing is menu log, regardless of what some guys will tell you is not against ToS.  Would Frontier increase the delay or not and when it is triggered is totally different topic.

There are just three types of players in this game in regards of direct PvP:
1. Those that do not like their game ruined by others.
2. Those that do not mind their game ruined by others.
3. Those that like their game ruin others' experience.

It is obvious that 1 and 3 cannot meet on one term.  Accept it and move on.

Not sure what all this discussion tries to achieve. If you belive your point needs to be considered, official forum supposedly is the place where Frontier listen to those. If you think, someone played against ToS - file official ticke to the support.

Last edit: 28 Jan 2021, 10:03am
Sakashiro
28 Jan 2021, 10:46am
I'm currently prepping a workhorse Conda for bounty hunting, hauling, and mats gathering. Figured that I need to up my game a bit if I want triple Elite and a fleet carrier any time soon. So this is the most expensive build I've assembled so far. Plenty of cargo space, a collector limpet controller for convenience, and long range pulse laser turrets for epic fireworks. And shields of course, heavy duty shields. I even unlocked Guardian shield reinforcements for a few extra MJ. Not quite done engineering yet, but the ship is already pretty much untouchable in hazRES, to the point that it gets a little dull.

Made sure all parts came with the 17.5% discount, although at this point it's unlikely I'll ever have to rebuy the ship. With its shields and a fast booting FSD it should be as gank-proof as my Courier.

I sold all my other ships, except for Snowblood and the free Sidewinder of course.
Episparh
28 Jan 2021, 11:10am
It is OK for light PvE... I am not sure it can survive encounter of FDL + 2-3 Vultures given in wing assassination missions.

... But with so low hull and literally no MRP you may get in trouble and definitely it would be blown if you encounter a player with reverb torps.

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