Offtopic

Rebecca Hail
06 Jan 2021, 9:46am
Aleksander Majjam
ColdSteel60When you’re new to Inara and have no idea what’s happening.

[img=640x480]https://frinkiac.com/meme/S08E08/802984.jpg?b64lines=SEVZLCBJJ1ZFIE9OTFkgQkVFTgogSEVSRSBBIEZFVyBNSU5VVEVTLgogV0hBVCdTIEdPSU5HIE9OPw==[/img]

(Not trying to belittle the issue, just surprised and curious)



The women of Inara are engaged in a knife fight.

For the first time in recorded history, the Federation (Becca) and the Empire (Ama), join forces against a ruthless Independent (Saka).

Interesting discussion for sure, and one read while eating your favorite snacks as us peanut gallery folk watch, chime in periodically, and wait with bated for the next post.

Separate of the conversation, I'm secretly wondering how much it would cost me to get Becca to read me a lullaby in German in a sultry tone.


A lot, you simp.
Xeknos
06 Jan 2021, 9:51am
SakashiroFreedom of expression and censorship are topics I feel strongly about. My husband is from a country that has recovered from its own period of authoritarianism. Germany, while never getting tired of pointing fingers at others, keeps kowtowing to the Chinese communist regime by not recognizing Taiwan's independence, to a point that the German government didn't even have the courtesy to say "thank you" after Taiwan had donated millions of protective masks.

So I'm not exactly an avid fan of Germany and particularly Germans trying to lecture me about topics such as censorship. I do not enjoy these debates, in fact I regret even responding to Rebecca at all. I should have realized early what she was on about.


You're aware that only 14 countries officially recognize Taiwan, right?

You want us to believe your... dislike of Germany somehow stems from "big bad China", but I'm not sure if I buy that. Most nations have a complicated relationship with Taiwan.
Sakashiro
06 Jan 2021, 9:55am
Rebecca HailTo make it absolutely clear again: Your claim that Germany has a political censorship that is biased in favour of the government is baseless.

I provided four examples that prove my claim. You provided none to the contrary. All your conjecture about me, my motives, my language, my knowledge about German law etc. is just a sideshow to save face. Maybe you'll manage to fool someone else with your duplicity. I see a few likely candidates. Good luck!
Sakashiro
06 Jan 2021, 10:07am
XeknosYou want us to believe your... dislike of Germany somehow stems from "big bad China", but I'm not sure if I buy that.

No, that's certainly not the only reason. And you're right, there are many more countries selling out to China. Being with a Taiwanese made me more aware of the situation.
Kalenar
06 Jan 2021, 10:07am
Rebecca HailTo make it absolutely clear again: Your claim that Germany has a political censorship that is biased in favour of the government is baseless.


Well, in some sense political censorship in Germany is biased towards keeping the status quo by stopping far-far-right and other illegal influences (just like, you know, other laws are supposed to keep the status quo -- most people agree that that's better than most alternatives, after all). Can't say that I'm unhappy about that either.

And I feel like most of this debate comes down to differing core beliefs: If freedom of expression is the human right most important to someone, then every instance of it being denied is an atrocity. If one reviles censorship in any form, then what Germany is doing is unacceptable.
Rebecca Hail
06 Jan 2021, 10:08am
Sakashiro
Rebecca HailTo make it absolutely clear again: Your claim that Germany has a political censorship that is biased in favour of the government is baseless.


I provided four examples that prove my claim. You provided none to the contrary. All your conjecture about me, my motives, my language, my knowledge about German law etc. is just a sideshow to save face. Maybe you'll manage to fool someone else with your duplicity. I see a few likely candidates. Good luck!


I responded to all your examples in depth and gave you numerous reasons why they do not prove your claim.

And I'm not going to argue with you on the basis of "I'm right, you're wrong.". If you want to stop, just stop, but if you want to call someone else duplicit, you should work on your own dishonesty first.

Kalenar
Rebecca HailTo make it absolutely clear again: Your claim that Germany has a political censorship that is biased in favour of the government is baseless.



Well, in some sense political censorship in Germany is biased towards keeping the status quo by stopping far-far-right and other illegal influences (just like, you know, other laws are supposed to keep the status quo -- most people agree that that's better than most alternatives, after all). Can't say that I'm unhappy about that either.

And I feel like most of this debate comes down to differing core beliefs: If freedom of expression is the human right most important to someone, then every instance of it being denied is an atrocity. If one reviles censorship in any form, then what Germany is doing is unacceptable.


Oh, definitely. German political censorship is biased against undemocratic ideologies, far-right as well as far-left. It's not however biased in favour of the current government, especially Angela Merkel, and that was the main point of this discussion.
Sakashiro
06 Jan 2021, 10:11am
Aleksander Majjama lullaby in German in a sultry tone.

Brace yourself for disappointment, because there's no way to speak German that way.
Kalenar
06 Jan 2021, 10:20am
Rebecca HailOh, definitely. German political censorship is biased against undemocratic ideologies, far-right as well as far-left. It's not however biased in favour of the current government, especially Angela Merkel, and that was the main point of this discussion.


Fair. Let's call it biased in favour of the system then
Gotta admit I didn't read through all details of the discussion, so I shouldn't have spoken up anyways.
Sakashiro
06 Jan 2021, 10:29am
Rebecca HailI responded to all your examples in depth and gave you numerous reasons why they do not prove your claim.

If a swastika or a Nazi salute can be used to mock foreign leaders but not your own, how is that not censorship in favor of the government?

If foreign flags can be publicly burned in protest but not your own, how is that not censorship in favor of the government?

I provided examples. You just keep shaking your head in denial.
JB Threepwood
06 Jan 2021, 10:48am
Sakashiro
Aleksander Majjama lullaby in German in a sultry tone.


Brace yourself for disappointment, because there's no way to speak German that way.


I've always found German to be a delightfully camp little accent... but that might be from growing up with 'Allo 'Allo and having a gay German work friend.
Rebecca Hail
06 Jan 2021, 11:04am
Sakashiro
Rebecca HailI responded to all your examples in depth and gave you numerous reasons why they do not prove your claim.


If a swastika or a Nazi salute can be used to mock foreign leaders but not your own, how is that not censorship in favor of the government?


You can and you can probably find cases where it went before a court and was acquitted, but I'm not going to do the legwork of looking through hundreds of verdicts to find that particular case. Politicians from PEGIDA and the AfD regularly compare Angela Merkel to Hitler and todays Germany to the Third Reich.

We've already talked about the ECHR complaint of Hans Burkhard Nix multiple times and there's not much to say when it comes to Günther Wangerin.


If foreign flags can be publicly burned in protest but not your own, how is that not censorship in favor of the government?


How is that political censorship? How is a political ideology hampered or promoted by a ban on the burning of German flags?


I provided examples. You just keep shaking your head in denial.


Even if all of your four examples (while only two of them are actual court cases over a StGB §86a violation) would've been unjust decisions in favour of the government, it would not be proof that there is a censorship with a bias for the government. You cherry-picked yourself examples from a pool of over 100000 cases over the last ten years and think they're for some reason relevant enough to make statements about the entire legal framework from them. I mean, this is just basic statistics. You don't pick out four M&Ms out of a 100000 and then declare that half of them are red because you ended up with two red ones. If you want to make broad claims like this produce something that carries statistical relevance.

If Germany had a censorship with bias for the government it wouldn't be ranked 11th when it comes to freedom of press. There is a censorship in Germany, and that censorship is biased for democracy (or rather, against undemocratic ideologies) and also punishes the use of unconstitutional symbols if said use doesn't fall into one of the exceptions. But you'll ignore that probably again, since it doesn't fit into your narrative.

Kalenar
Fair. Let's call it biased in favour of the system then
Gotta admit I didn't read through all details of the discussion, so I shouldn't have spoken up anyways.


I mean, this is a public forum so obviously you can participate as long as you stick to the rules, even if you haven't been part of the discussion from the start. If anyone is going to get a head chop from Artie here, it's going to be Saka and me.

Last edit: 06 Jan 2021, 11:18am
Aleksander Majjam
06 Jan 2021, 11:17am
Sakashiro
Aleksander Majjama lullaby in German in a sultry tone.


Brace yourself for disappointment, because there's no way to speak German that way.


I find the language very satisfying to the ears. Then again, anything other than boring ass English is a joy to listen to, IMO.

My year as a US Marine spent in Germany was anything but disappointing, I'll say that much.
Sakashiro
06 Jan 2021, 11:21am
Rebecca HailYou cherry-picked yourself examples from a pool of over 100000 cases over the last ten years and think they're for some reason relevant enough to make statements about the entire legal framework from them.

It takes just one counter-example to prove me wrong. How many examples does it take to convince you? Give me a number.
Synthya Wylder
06 Jan 2021, 11:22am
Aleksander Majjam
Sakashiro
Aleksander Majjama lullaby in German in a sultry tone.



Brace yourself for disappointment, because there's no way to speak German that way.



I find the language very satisfying to the ears. Then again, anything other than boring ass English is a joy to listen to, IMO.

My year as a US Marine spent in Germany was anything but disappointing, I'll say that much.


It's the St. Pauli girls, right?
Aleksander Majjam
06 Jan 2021, 11:26am
Synthya Wylder
Aleksander Majjam
Sakashiro


Brace yourself for disappointment, because there's no way to speak German that way.




I find the language very satisfying to the ears. Then again, anything other than boring ass English is a joy to listen to, IMO.

My year as a US Marine spent in Germany was anything but disappointing, I'll say that much.



It's the St. Pauli girls, right?


I will NOT incriminate myself, Syn.

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