Elite roleplay: Q&A and OOC
22 Dec 2018, 10:41pm
If I think about it, its even more far fetched since you'd not imply that someone in the US openly holds slaves, you'd imply that the US itself openly holds slaves.
And that's not even accounting for the obvious downsides of unskilled slave labour in the 34th century.
Last edit: 23 Dec 2018, 7:08am
23 Dec 2018, 2:28am
Because it's not being openly done in the game by said SP (at least to my knowledge anyway, but I'm not one for news).
And it's a matter of perspective for whether or not it's being done in the U.S.A.
I'll just add a definition for slave:
A person who is the legal property of another and is forced to obey them.
or
One that is completely subservient to a dominating influence.
or
Work excessively hard.
It goes on, there are a lot of other uses for the word.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/slave
Simply saying it doesn't exist because you believe it doesn't, is biased information.
That's like, every news agency on our entire planet, every one has an agenda that they are making happen. By giving us the information they have, and only the parts they choose to share with us. Not both sides of the story in all cases; sometimes so little of it in fact, that you can't even make an informed opinion on the matter.
However people choose to believe any/all of what their favorite station reports, because they think it's right. Personal Bias yet again.
That's simply an example, of how things can be/go wrong easily.
23 Dec 2018, 7:45am
WilliamReace
It goes on, there are a lot of other uses for the word.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/slave
Drifting off-topic somewhat, I see this a lot - someone feeling the need to post a link to a dictionary, as if it somehow validates their point.
1. It doesn't.
2. It's patronising as fuck.
If I don't know what a word means, I look it up myself without the mansplaination.
Last edit: 23 Dec 2018, 8:39am
23 Dec 2018, 7:55am
WilliamReaceI'd like to point out your "openly" as misleading.
Because it's not being openly done in the game by said SP (at least to my knowledge anyway, but I'm not one for news).
And there is to my knowledge no lore of it being done in secret. It's not something I can imagine the Federation doing on a large scale either. It simply makes no sense for a mining operation in the 34th century.
And it's a matter of perspective for whether or not it's being done in the U.S.A.
I'll just add a definition for slave:
A person who is the legal property of another and is forced to obey them.
or
One that is completely subservient to a dominating influence.
or
Work excessively hard.
It goes on, there are a lot of other uses for the word.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/slave
You're arguing semantics. + what Kari already said.
Being completely subservient or working excessively hard aren't outlawed. Owning a person is.
Apart from that, the question is not whether it's done in the US or not, the question is whether it's done BY the US or not. The US has a lot of flaws but holding slaves isn't among them.
Simply saying it doesn't exist because you believe it doesn't, is biased information.
Which I don't, as stated above. My reasoning lies within known lore, which doesn't support your statements.
In return, your statement here would mean that simply saying it does exist because you believe it does, is biased information.
That's like, every news agency on our entire planet, every one has an agenda that they are making happen. By giving us the information they have, and only the parts they choose to share with us. Not both sides of the story in all cases; sometimes so little of it in fact, that you can't even make an informed opinion on the matter.
However people choose to believe any/all of what their favorite station reports, because they think it's right. Personal Bias yet again.
That's simply an example, of how things can be/go wrong easily.
I'm not going to discuss 21st century media bias with you in a RP OOC forum. I don't agree with you, lets leave it at that.
Last edit: 23 Dec 2018, 10:31am
23 Dec 2018, 10:57am
I do apologize for going off-topic, I do realize this forum is meant for other things, however I'm not particularly sorry for speaking my mind on the subject.
If you feel you must end the discussion, then that is your choice.
I do have one more piece of feedback, which is your choice to read or not.
https://ideas.ted.com/6-strategies-to-help-you-turn-heated-dinner-arguments-into-real-conversations/
23 Dec 2018, 11:38am
WilliamReace
there was nothing wrong with including a definition of the term.
If being patronising is acceptable to you, I guess not.
23 Dec 2018, 11:52am
WilliamReaceWhen it's wrong and needs to be defined in order to be understood properly, then a dictionary is the way to go. there was nothing wrong with including a definition of the term.
Or you can just use the main definition of the term slave. Owning another person is forbidden in the Federation and I don't see a proper reason why the Federation should violate its own rules on that particular topic.
I do apologize for going off-topic, I do realize this forum is meant for other things, however I'm not particularly sorry for speaking my mind on the subject.
If you feel you must end the discussion, then that is your choice.
I do have one more piece of feedback, which is your choice to read or not.
You misunderstood me. My last sentence referred to your statement about media bias, which I'm not going to discuss with you here, since it's not the right forum.
https://ideas.ted.com/6-strategies-to-help-you-turn-heated-dinner-arguments-into-real-conversations/
You realize that this only makes you come over as even more patronising?
23 Dec 2018, 11:37pm
Kari Kerenski Drifting off-topic somewhat, I see this a lot - someone feeling the need to post a link to a dictionary, as if it somehow validates their point.
1. It doesn't.
2. It's patronising as fuck.
If I don't know what a word means, I look it up myself without the mansplaination.
Which is a clear violation of a law you believe to be inviolable.
One which happens to be known as Sexism.
And none of my comments thus far having any such allusion within them. Because I can neither see nor really care to know if the person on the other side of the avatar is male or female. But someone sure does, and is using it to instigate further.
Secondly, the only things being patronising, are the people taking things being said straightforward with no such inclination as such. Possibly due to aforementioned jump to a sexism battle when none was present at the start.
And thus I return back to the topic at hand.
You believe that no laws ever made have ever been violated by anyone for any reason, as such no slavery can be taking place.
Then we shall disregard the murdering, thieving, all other general acts of violence, and Human rights degradation, plus the entire prison system put in place to punish people who violate said laws.
What a perfect world we live in, this tiny little rock, with a mere 7.7 billion estimated in November of 2018. If only the interstellar super powers of a game created by a few of those 7.7 billion could follow in our footsteps.
Now that was condescending, really, and I must apologize for that. However you seem to think you live in a world with a population of 2 (just you and Kari), and it must be quite the entertaining thrill to have such a forum as this to interact with other people on except when it disagrees with your worldly/galactic/universal view point. Or maybe that is where you get your thrill and the game itself is not fun for you in that way, we all experience joy in different ways after all.
Must it really degrade that far, does it have to be as such, no, it does not. But we are all our own person, with our own ideas, and convincing anyone to see (or look at) something from some other point of view would be a daunting task for even the brightest that live on our single, tiny, world.
This following is also far off topic, but just further evidence to prove my perspective.
If the person has no desire to see the bigger picture, to investigate for themselves, to actually increase their own knowledge of the world they may live in; we are left with people who vote because someone has a uncommon spelling in their name, is a different skin color, or a different gender (really? yes really. because presidential elections are things that every citizen can take part in if they choose). Without any information as to what they plan to do when they are in the position they are wanting to be voted in for. And even that perspective, being seen on a news broadcast, is an example of how the information given is not everything the person being interviewed has said. Another example of only getting a piece of the information and not being able to make an informed decision from it.
I feel as though your unwillingness to discuss the simple fact of no news station in particular providing all the facts on any given story, from both sides, in reality only further proves your inability to see from any perspective other than your own; as fixed and mislead as it may have been by people whom I have never met nor really want to.
Politics is always the worst subject to discuss anywhere (unless all people involved have the same view), and I don't like to use examples from it since virtually everything is misconstrued by someone due to the things that are left out. But it is a very good place to look for examples of misinformation, disinformation, and everything except the whole truth accompanied by all the facts.
This whole thing started from an inability to believe that the Federation was employing slaves to do any sort of work. I obviously can't speak for the Federation of a game that I play. But I can speak about the laws which get violated on a daily basis by multitudes of people all over this little world we live on. No matter the country they reside in. As said by another, Slavery is legal in Empire space, yet some systems under Empire control have made it illegal. Yet slaves are still traded in those systems by some.
What I was getting at in the beginning, and now here at this point, is that laws are made and they are broken without exception. Some do it willingly, some do it unknowingly, and may not even realize till after the fact. Nobody can be expected to live by the same "moral code" as another who grew up within the same house even. That just bespeaks to the differences abundant within humankind, and without those differences we wouldn't have a lot of the things we do have. Including a great many of the laws and rights that we live with and some try to abide by.
24 Dec 2018, 12:57am
WilliamReace
Which is a clear violation of a law you believe to be inviolable.
One which happens to be known as Sexism.
And none of my comments thus far having any such allusion within them. Because I can neither see nor really care to know if the person on the other side of the avatar is male or female. But someone sure does, and is using it to instigate further.
Secondly, the only things being patronising, are the people taking things being said straightforward with no such inclination as such. Possibly due to aforementioned jump to a sexism battle when none was present at the start.
You can be patronising to both males and females. Why you think that you've been accused of being sexist or someone's fighting a 'sexism battle' is beyond me.
And thus I return back to the topic at hand.
You believe that no laws ever made have ever been violated by anyone for any reason, as such no slavery can be taking place.
Then we shall disregard the murdering, thieving, all other general acts of violence, and Human rights degradation, plus the entire prison system put in place to punish people who violate said laws.
Speculation, you don't know any of my believes or opinions.
What a perfect world we live in, this tiny little rock, with a mere 7.7 billion estimated in November of 2018. If only the interstellar super powers of a game created by a few of those 7.7 billion could follow in our footsteps.
Now that was condescending, really, and I must apologize for that. However you seem to think you live in a world with a population of 2 (just you and Kari), and it must be quite the entertaining thrill to have such a forum as this to interact with other people on except when it disagrees with your worldly/galactic/universal view point. Or maybe that is where you get your thrill and the game itself is not fun for you in that way, we all experience joy in different ways after all.
Must it really degrade that far, does it have to be as such, no, it does not. But we are all our own person, with our own ideas, and convincing anyone to see (or look at) something from some other point of view would be a daunting task for even the brightest that live on our single, tiny, world.
This was a discussion about a minor detail of lore. How you invented a imaginary conflict with my "worldly/galactic/universal view point" is, again, beyond me.
This following is also far off topic, but just further evidence to prove my perspective.
If the person has no desire to see the bigger picture, to investigate for themselves, to actually increase their own knowledge of the world they may live in; we are left with people who vote because someone has a uncommon spelling in their name, is a different skin color, or a different gender (really? yes really. because presidential elections are things that every citizen can take part in if they choose). Without any information as to what they plan to do when they are in the position they are wanting to be voted in for. And even that perspective, being seen on a news broadcast, is an example of how the information given is not everything the person being interviewed has said. Another example of only getting a piece of the information and not being able to make an informed decision from it.
Presidential elections are none of my concerns. I neither see your perspective nor your supposed evidence to prove it.
I feel as though your unwillingness to discuss the simple fact of no news station in particular providing all the facts on any given story, from both sides, in reality only further proves your inability to see from any perspective other than your own; as fixed and mislead as it may have been by people whom I have never met nor really want to.
Politics is always the worst subject to discuss anywhere (unless all people involved have the same view), and I don't like to use examples from it since virtually everything is misconstrued by someone due to the things that are left out. But it is a very good place to look for examples of misinformation, disinformation, and everything except the whole truth accompanied by all the facts.
Okay, let me quote myself really quick, just to make sure that you actually comprehend what I wrote in regards to this:
Rebecca Hail
I'm not going to discuss 21st century media bias with you in a RP OOC forum.
I marked the important part for you.
Just to make sure that I get the message across: I'm not going to discuss RL-politics or anything closely related such as media bias with you on Inara. This isn't the suitable forum for it.
This whole thing started from an inability to believe that the Federation was employing slaves to do any sort of work. I obviously can't speak for the Federation of a game that I play. But I can speak about the laws which get violated on a daily basis by multitudes of people all over this little world we live on. No matter the country they reside in. As said by another, Slavery is legal in Empire space, yet some systems under Empire control have made it illegal. Yet slaves are still traded in those systems by some.
What I was getting at in the beginning, and now here at this point, is that laws are made and they are broken without exception. Some do it willingly, some do it unknowingly, and may not even realize till after the fact. Nobody can be expected to live by the same "moral code" as another who grew up within the same house even. That just bespeaks to the differences abundant within humankind, and without those differences we wouldn't have a lot of the things we do have. Including a great many of the laws and rights that we live with and some try to abide by.
An inability to believe? No. I stated the reasons why I don't believe that the Federation, the state itself, uses slave labour on a large scale. It has nothing to do with some inability to imagine people breaking the law you assume Kari and I have.
Do you have any official lore confirming that the Federation (the state itself not some individual/company in federal jurisdiction) uses slave labour on a larger scale such as in mining operations?
A simple Yes or No as an answer is sufficient. If yes, please provide a source with it.
Please save yourself the time for writing another lecture, as I'm pretty tired of discussing strawmen and windmills with you. This discussion is also starting to bother other regular forum goers so you will not receive an answer.
Now I'm done, Isaiah.
19 Jan 2019, 7:12am
19 Jan 2019, 7:21am
Nisme DalheidisHey all, what resources did you use to build your characters' backstories within the Elite timeline? I know there are quite a few recent archives from GalNet news and the like, but I'd like to put together a simple history that observes the prime fiction from decades past.
The ED Wiki has a timeline - I believe it's up-to-date and official canon.
http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Elite_Dangerous_Timeline