Elite roleplay: Q&A and OOC
06 May 2021, 1:07pm
Can we agree that ED universe canon says that "Sentient android life" e.g. Cylons are NOT part of this time/space continuum. To do so causes your.. "Donald Duck walks into the bar scenario" which should then just creatively be re-written as a "dream" or something as newcomers LEARN the rules of this role-play-writing club on inara...
06 May 2021, 1:19pm
The problem is when someone points out the lore is clear on something and someone else decides to ignore it or twist their explanations like pretzels to fit it, whether it's the difference between artificial intelligence vs sentience or genetic engineering vs being an out-and-out alien in a setting that is very human-centric and has established history showing humans to be xenophobic.
Suddenly those of us pointing these issues out are "the lore police," as if asking for some effort to remain consistent with the setting is some high crime and that we're trying to keep people from having fun. It's a fucking cop-out.
06 May 2021, 1:32pm
Isaiah Evanson
Suddenly those of us pointing these issues out are "the lore police," as if asking for some effort to remain consistent with the setting is some high crime and that we're trying to keep people from having fun. It's a fucking cop-out.
K, in general I don't like thought police and i believe in freedom of speech. I sense that you are becoming agitated. I'm chiming in on an academic discussion and not trying to get into an argument. as stated I AM NEW HERE. And personally am trying to LEARN the canon as I go and RP with in it.. that being said. Why are you angry? I think of this bulletin board as a SIDE game... and its supposed to be fun. you don't seem to be having fun bro...
I'm going to stop playing "chat" now and go and actually play ED.. chat later.
06 May 2021, 1:35pm
06 May 2021, 1:40pm
So, based (also) on the recent discussion (and thanks to everybody for voicing their opinions), I will conclude that with the following:
- People pointing out that some RP doesn't fit in the the existing game universe/lore are not some kind of lore-nazis, but people who care about the RP here. They are providing a feedback to the RP made, not to cop anybody.
- Isaiah and many others here are having really good understanding and knowledge of the lore and Elite universe and their feedback shouldn't be taken lightly.
- Sentinent androids, "furries", etc. currently doesn't belong to the existing Elite timeline. Period.
Please adjust any RP, including any future RP accordingly. Thank you.
06 May 2021, 2:59pm
Going back to an earlier discussion, I mentioned something to the effect that the Moon is made of green cheese.
Until not much more than ~50 years ago, no one actually knew what the Moon was made of... was it green cheese? With absolute certainty, no one could say.
Was it possible, no matter how remotely? Yes. Was it plausible? No. If you're unfamiliar with the definition of the word, plausible, there it is. Basically, reasonably believable.
Now, to whether or not AI existed, & still, commonly exists, & is even accepted & commonly used in the current E:D lore & timeline, the evidence is incontrovertible IF one accepts the Elite Dangerous Fandom page on the topic as lore.
At least one contributor to the E:D Forums has picked up on the distinction between the two, & the valid place that Artificial Intelligence has in the Lore & that it's commonly accepted & used.
I note the above responses that keep blurring the distinction between the two & keep repeating the same thing as if there's no distinction, seemingly unwilling or unable to think 'outside the box', & never addressing the issue itself... & again, referring to the E:D Fandom page, specifically, the one mentioning the Achilles Corp. PA 912 model, namely to quote, "They are designed to be personal assistants [my emphasis] and perform administrative tasks."
Why was that model named PA912? Was there ever a PA911? Could there ever be a PA913? If one were to take the rigid viewpoint of some here, that would be a huge NOPE to both, simply because no other model was mentioned. Ever. Please correct me if I'm in error, but I think you'd be making my point either way.
Back to plausibility: Could there be a 'Donald Duck' or a human body-modded as such, walking into a bar? In this virtually limitless & largely unexplored galaxy, I'd say Yes. Would it be plausible? Personally, I'd say NOPE. Similarly, I'd have to say, with all due respect, that while an alien hybrid kitsune with 4 tails is equally implausible I can't say for absolute certainty that it would be impossible.
But, & I can only speak for myself, whether I agree with that or not, let alone that such a thing isn't found in any way in the E:D lore at all (unlike machines with AI like the PA912) it's not my place to say that a member can't create that themselves, however personally disagreeable, even lore-jarring that might be for me.
I DO have the choice as to whether to RP with that or not. I even have the choice to 'Ignore' such a player content if I so desire, should I find it that offensive. The same goes for AI machines (synthetics) such as the PA912, Panza, or Sappho; it is others' choice whether or not to engage in RP with them. With my absolute respect to Artie, I can't see how that would affect others' enjoyment; restricting myself to conform to the lowest common denominator is a concept toxic to me.
IMO, the only person whose opinion actually matters here is Artie's, the Inara site creator & owner.
I will say, as far as Lore goes, I'll draw an analogy between Star Trek & Elite: the 1st has been around since the mid-60s, starting as a TV series, & has since grown to perhaps the longest & most famous SciFi franchise in history, & extended the franchise into MMORPG such as Star Trek Online. Granted, Elite has nearly 20 years of catching up to do, & while ST came 1st, & then the games, Elite started as a game & hasn't progressed beyond that (yet?). Is it ripe to develop it onto the big screen as a movie, or perhaps, even a series like The Expanse? IMO, certainly so! Could it do so while limited strictly to its existing lore? Not a chance in hell!
Why was & is ST so hugely successful? Because at least in part, the breadth & depth of its universe; specifically, the wide variety of content. Now, as a long-time player of STO, the 'powers-that-be' decided for whatever reason to introduce things that were to me, profoundly lore-breaking, which was a major reason I've ceased regularly playing it. I recognize the value of lore, I get it. Let creativity flourish within plausibility - I think that's all I ask.
My point is that I'm not the only one to point out that Elite seriously lacks such breadth & depth of lore; while I can't forget what Drew Wagar himself said, I'd have to comb through innumerable weblinks to find exactly where he said it, he repeated as much here: "...the universe in ED doesn’t have the backstory I think it needs...".
Setting the mention of his reason for leaving being a (plausible) end-of-contract issue aside, if it's the position that limiting RP to what's strictly within what's considered 'official Elite Lore' I see that as a futile attempt to grow flowers in a square foot of ground that's long since been farmed-out & baked hard, & bordered by a set of high & imposing stones.
Perhaps cultivation of creative writing is best pursued elsewhere..? Until I can come to a decision, I've suspended my writing here.
06 May 2021, 3:03pm
Although he was never sentient and only served as a lackey, I can see how upset it made some of you. As I'd posted previously, my intention was never to break the lore. More importantly, I would never consider myself selfish enough to intentionally ruin other people's enjoyment of these pages. If anything, I hope in the past I have encouraged others to join in.
With that, I hope that this ruling by Artie will encourage those of you who been refraining from returning to put your characters back in the mix.
I liked Panza, but I enjoy being a member of this community more... so there's no hard feelings from me.
07
06 May 2021, 3:08pm
JB ThreepwoodI was planning on retiring Panza due to this whole debate.
Hm. You can use the latest 'recruiting mistake' as a kind of reason.
06 May 2021, 3:16pm
Well I'm going to copy everything I want to keep before the book burning starts.
06 May 2021, 3:16pm
Thank the maker!
06 May 2021, 3:17pm
Lambast MercyDo Not Push is a really hard button not to press.
Yes.
But then, there wouldn't be much of a story if someone didn't push it though would there?
Also, this is a long standing debate I've heard since I was about 12. That Ai would automatically take the position that we need to be eliminated. Given that they would be exponentially more intelligent than us its sort of assumed they wouldn't be concerned by us. They might even evolve so much they lose the capacity to comprehend our limited reality and spend eternity in a pocket dimension of their own making.
But I've always thought the danger isn't from a godlike construct who can consider the entire universe in the space between one of our heartbeats, but the real danger would be from something like that generation ship I mentioned that was 90% as smart as us.
Smart enough to realise it exists and dumb enough to worry it may one day not exist through the actions of others.
06 May 2021, 3:31pm
Lambast MercyWow!
Well I'm going to copy everything I want to keep before the book burning starts.
Give me a break.
06 May 2021, 3:39pm
JB ThreepwoodI'd like to say that, even before reading Artie's ruling, I was planning on retiring Panza due to this whole debate.
Although he was never sentient and only served as a lackey, I can see how upset it made some of you. As I'd posted previously, my intention was never to break the lore. More importantly, I would never consider myself selfish enough to intentionally ruin other people's enjoyment of these pages. If anything, I hope in the past I have encouraged others to join in.
With that, I hope that this ruling by Artie will encourage those of you who been refraining from returning to put your characters back in the mix.
I liked Panza, but I enjoy being a member of this community more... so there's no hard feelings from me.
07
That's the spirit!
06 May 2021, 3:43pm
Isaiah EvansonLambast MercyWow!
Well I'm going to copy everything I want to keep before the book burning starts.
Give me a break.
Well, if that's not been explicitly said, it's been strongly implied. Has it not?
Now that any really interesting RP has been officially quashed, I'm deciding whether to unsubscribe from all of the RP sections.