Elite: Game talk

Meowers
07 Mar 2024, 4:09pm
EpisparhHonestly, I wouldn't be surprised if one of the four ships is actually a cobra. A Grand or King Cobra with the length of the Anaconda and the width of Type-9 with x2 the Cutter shield potential and more firepower than Corvette but still as maneuverable and nimble as Cobra MkII
200k Arx, please.
*politely nods towards the payment terminal*
Sampi Ogonek
07 Mar 2024, 6:54pm
Kasumi Goto[...] I can’t imagine that it is any better than getting eaten alive by a highly ‘virulent’ and lethal mushroom.

This is assuming that the Titans can feel pain and/or distress the way humans and animals (and, possibly, Thargoids) do. Which, to be honest, I consider unwarranted anthropomorphising.

Animals (and thus humans) have evolved their feelings of pain and distress. Keep in mind that evolution does not and cannot actually design anything — it is a mindless, extremely slow, random optimisation process. We have these feelings because they happened to be an effective way of increasing the relative reproductive success of the genes our ancestors bore, which is the only optimisation criterion a natural evolution has. Intelligent beings, OTOH, can design things. A war machine (whether mechanical or biological) does not need to feel things the way humans do; in particular, it should function under severe damage as well as it can, without being crippled by pain (like humans are). War machine’s design goals most certainly do not include increasing its reproductive fitness.

Kasumi GotoAnd you don’t know if every Thargoid will have made it off the Titan before it goes.

Probably not, and yes, those that do not make it out of there are going to suffer as they go with their (mother)ship (although not for long; the final detonation sequence takes exactly 2 minutes, from the timer reaching zero to the big kaboom). They also probably suffer earlier (whether they make it out or not) as the Titan gets uncomfortably hot inside — just like humans in burning starports, y’know.

Kasumi GotoI don’t think I’ll want to discuss this much further. I don’t enjoy the subject and it just upsets me more the more I think about it.

I understand. You know what upsets me to think about the Elite universe? That humans, having spread among the stars, are more busy killing each other than they were at the beginning of 21st century. As it was already pointed out, pretty much all factions in E:⁠D issue missions to slaughter civilians.

Thargoids, in comparison, are not as problematic; they are alien, we are unlikely to be able to actually empathise with them (as opposed to anthropomorphising them). Not that I really buy that they would be so damn territorial and willing to slaughter other sentient beings, themselves being supposedly very smart and having been around for (at least) a couple million years.

Still, I can enjoy playing E:⁠D; I just have to practice not thinking about it too much. Which is not all that hard, after all; we humans are innately pretty good at compartmentalising. (Also, it helps that so many things in E:⁠D make no damn sense; my disbelief already needs a huge suspension.)

Kasumi GotoThis war was already a slaughterhouse of madness before.

Indeed. See above
Sampi Ogonek
07 Mar 2024, 7:01pm
Meowers
EpisparhFDev are particularly obsessed by the Cobra ... even naming their engine after it.

Yeah, and all the computer stuff you could see in on-foot content, runs 'CobraOS'. Okay, I understand, first (and only playable, though you can't have an outside view of it) ship in the original '84 Elite.

It’s iconic, y’know.
Minonian
07 Mar 2024, 7:16pm
EpisparhFDev are particularly obsessed by the Cobra ... even naming their engine after it.

Building the Cobra


At the original elite all ships named after a nope rope. So yea, someone is.
Kasumi Goto
07 Mar 2024, 7:18pm
Thargoid ships are not just "simple war machines" made of steel with an emotionless computer that works on ones and zeroes. Elite's lore goes to some way to suggest this, and there is even some strong hints toward this in the Project Seraph logs of Oaken Point (in HIP 26176), with the Scout seeming picky which of the test subjects it allowed more or less of a connection with, once Azimuth began to bypass the defensive mechanisms to avoid non-Thargoids connecting to the ship, with one log outright stating one of the subjects said "It won't let me" before getting killed by the ship.

Their ships may also be a biologically engineered form of life, instead of purely mechanical intelligence.

Why would they have pain response engineered into them in that case? I don't know. Maybe the Thargoids get a kick out of it, or it is used as an analogue to damage sensors or whatever. Doesn't have to be to the point of being non-functional.

Edit - further worth mentioning, an inbox message received in the leadup to the explosion specifically calls out "The Titan is behaving erratically". Which would be odd behavior for an emotionless machine of war, don't you think? Almost like getting cooked inside out and being in agony is driving it crazy. (Though apparently not enough to stop letting more Thargoids out of it ...)

Last edit: 07 Mar 2024, 7:25pm
Shg56
07 Mar 2024, 7:44pm
Yeah, goids are real heroes protecting universe from human virus don't saute them...
Vasil Vasilescu
07 Mar 2024, 8:07pm
The Thargoids are upset with humans because of the Sasquatch, more commonly called "squatches." The Thargoids encountered the Squatches 150K years ago when the Squatches, being ancient extradimensional nomad apes, wandered into the Thargoid's home dimension.

At first, the Thargoids thought the fuzzy bipeds were amusing because Squatches would appear only to take blurry photographs, or to leave behind weird footprints. It became a weekend hobby for Thargoids to try and get clear photos of squatches.

However, the squatches, having no natural predators in Thargoid dimension, soon became an invasive species. They pooped all over precious meta alloys and did disgusting monkey-things with the Thargoids' version of a football. Which, as might be expected, Thargoid parents considered inappropriate whenever it happened the middle of a youth game.

The Thargoids had to save their meta alloys and preserve the wholesomeness of youth sports. The only way they could do that was through exterminating the annoying squatch pests. And, man, did they ever! Only a few squatches managed to leave Thargoid dimension, eventually finding their way to Earth.

And that is the problem. To Thargoids, humans look like mostly hairless squatches with laser guns. And what is worse than a squatch pooping all over the place and violating your footballs? Yep, them doing it while shooting at you.

Last edit: 07 Mar 2024, 8:17pm
Meowers
07 Mar 2024, 8:11pm
...Did they make the football oval-shaped and started carrying it in their hands and throwing to each other instead of kicking it, calling it football? And did heinous things to the Thargoids' measurement system?
Vasil Vasilescu
07 Mar 2024, 8:15pm
I see you are also a student of ancient Thargoid-Squatch relations.
Sampi Ogonek
07 Mar 2024, 9:09pm
Kasumi GotoThargoid ships are not just "simple war machines"

I never suggested they were simple

Kasumi Gotomade of steel

They’re obviously not

Kasumi Gotowith an emotionless computer that works on ones and zeroes. Elite's lore goes to some way to suggest this, and there is even some strong hints toward this in the Project Seraph logs of Oaken Point (in HIP 26176), with the Scout seeming picky which of the test subjects it allowed more or less of a connection with, once Azimuth began to bypass the defensive mechanisms to avoid non-Thargoids connecting to the ship, with one log outright stating one of the subjects said "It won't let me" before getting killed by the ship.

Well, the subject shouted something unintelligible which one researcher interpreted as “It won’t let me”.

In any case, a complex system behaving in a way that we humans perceive as “picky” is very little evidence for the said system having actual emotions. Heck, current GPTs can appear picky.

Kasumi GotoTheir ships may also be a biologically engineered form of life

That’s my impression, too.

Kasumi GotoWhy would they have pain response engineered into them in that case? I don't know. Maybe the Thargoids get a kick out of it, or it is used as an analogue to damage sensors or whatever.

Well, if the Thargoids get a kick out of it, that’s their problem, in my opinion.

My point, anyway, is that internal mind processes of a ship bio-engineered by an intelligent species are unlikely to resemble internal mind processes of a human. It would likely be true if humans bio-engineered a ship, too.

Of course, what we are really witnessing is unfolding of a story written by humans for a general target of sci-fi fans, so a lot of anthropomorphisation is to be expected, whether it makes sense or not.

Kasumi GotoEdit - further worth mentioning, an inbox message received in the leadup to the explosion specifically calls out "The Titan is behaving erratically". Which would be odd behavior for an emotionless machine of war, don't you think?

Meh. I’ve witnessed people referring to a computer as behaving erratically. Anthropomorphisation and all that.
Kasumi Goto
07 Mar 2024, 9:40pm
You know what, just stick with your beliefs then, since you’ve clearly already made your mind up and I can’t help but feel a hidden mocking tone in your remarks.
Sampi Ogonek
07 Mar 2024, 10:16pm
Well, I am genuinely sorry if I came out as mocking; it was honestly not my intent. My intent was to make the discussion a bit light-hearted, given that we’re arguing (sometimes very passionately) about a fictional story.

To sum it up — I wanted to point out that quite different interpretations of the available evidence are possible, and that the available evidence is very thin indeed.

I suggest, then, that we politely agree to disagree about what, if anything, Thargoid bio-vessels can feel and the in-story ethical implications
Meowers
07 Mar 2024, 10:26pm
Sampi OgonekMeh. I’ve witnessed people referring to a computer as behaving erratically. Anthropomorphisation and all that.
Sometimes the best way to explain glitchy or in any other way unwanted and unexpected PC behaviour to those who don't know much about computers. Or, for them, to report that something is going wrong.
MikeHarding19
08 Mar 2024, 12:03am
Thanks for the input everyone. I have the Cutter and the Anaconda. Once I have the corvette I’ll put the prismatic shields on and try bounty hunting with it. Again thanks everyone.
Thinder
08 Mar 2024, 12:15am
Vasil Vasilescu
Thinder...when it comes to hauling the Cutter is even better than a T9, it has speed, capacity, can easily defeat an interdiction and is armed enough to kill any pirate thrown at it.



Better except for the price. But once you get to the point of buying a cutter, you are likely not worried about the price or paying the rebuy cost if you accidentally hit boost 2KM above a high-G planet.


You're right. But obviously I'm not bothered with cost issues anymore.

Bounty hunting only can pay for my weekly upkeep, slightly above 30 million now with the recent addition of the Bartender, that's 5 to 10 sorties, if I really need more, I do the passenger mission at Robigo Mines despite the fact that it have been visibly nerfed.

I keep my Carrier in Ross 342 because I have plenty of spots for hunting and also because everything I need is a jump away, apart for Raw Materials, Interstellar Factors, Material traders, Fleet carrier administration etc.

Good system Ross 342.

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