Maelstroms and the new Hunter/Glaive personal investigation notes to share
27 May 2023catzf19
Regarding the Maelstroms and the new Hunter/Glaive thargoid,what i have experienced and observed during the past few weeks
is as follows:
disclaimer:
most likely spoiler info is contained below.
some info may become out-dated and subject to change as time passes,
and/or the game changes.
by all means, i am not a good pilot nor have enough experience in ax
combat so all things considered, pls bear with me with the messy format
and the tldr :p
there is soo much details to explain, my apologies...
some notes:
i have been to 6 different maelstroms at the time of this writing, and
i think its safe to say they are virtually the same.
(oya, thor, raijin, taranis, hadad, cocijo, in that order)
they are all next to an ammonia planet, some are closer to the center of
the system than others (approx 150Ls to 39,000Ls), some ammonia planets
have rings like saturn, and its a breath taking view.
the further from the center of the system, the more likely you will get
relentlessly interdicted.
(edit: may 28, also went to my 7th maelstrom indra, pretty much the same
as the rest)
if your jump is destined to a maelstrom system (or any tharg-controlled
system for that matter), high chance of hyperdiction.
if your jump is destined to a non-tharg-controlled system, virtually no
hyperdictions, so high chance to survive if your boat is limping.
its good to find a "one jump range" star system close to a maelstrom
system and make it a launch point, which also works as an escape route
just in case...
if you dont own a fleet carrier, hopefully there are starports, and/or
fleet carriers offering their refuel repair rearm services there.
note:
you cannot jump a fleet carrier into a thargoid controlled system, so
you may need to take some time to find a system with the right distance
for your ship to be able to make it into the maelstrom in one jump.
once you enter the system with a maelstrom, you get an announcement from
the covas (voice of the computer) "warning: hazardous environment" which
basically means all guardian tech will melt in a short time, and soon
enough they will be unusable...
if you encounter a hunter/glaive anywhere, it has a field that will do
the same, melt your guardian tech without them even attacking you.
general rule of thumb regarding inter/hyper dictions:
- hyperdicted while jumping to a maelstrom system
- interdicted while super-cruising in a maelstrom system
if you stay at the same spot for some time, more thargs will join the party
(what joins seems random because i have seen single and multiple, cyclops
and or basilisk combos, or just plain scouts, usually multiple)
so its advisable to just boost away and start your jump asap, but if you
encounter a hunter/glaive, most likely you gotta fight (will get to that below)
note:
if you have never been to a maelstrom system, you will need at
least 2 utility modules (and some) so you will need a ship to be
able to fit them all:
one caustic sink launcher, preferably engineered for more ammo
(once unlocked at a rescue mega ship, you can purchase many)
this is crucial or your ship will not survive the caustic field
because the corrosion eats your ship very fast.
(repair/decontamination limpets are not fast enough, but recommended
to have if you can fit them in your ship)
one enhanced anti-xeno scanner
(longer range than the old one, no unlocks, sold at rescue mega ship)
this is not greatly needed, but good to have so you can see what
type of tharg you are targeting (but needed for collection of caustic
tissue samples).
and if going into the maelstrom to meet the titan, you will need
the
thargoid pulse neutralizer
you need one set of materials to trade for one module, so each time
you want another one, you cannot buy them with credits.
those materials can be collected/obtained at the area when you
jump into the maelstrom, the outer edge, destroying the caustic
generators, scan and research limpet them, etc.
while going through the caustic field towards the center, a huge
emp like field will hit you and kick you out to the outer rim of
the maelstrom cloud.
do this 5 times and you will accumulate the 5 data needed for
unlock/trading for one thargoid pulse neutralizer module.
(plus more materials/components are needed so pls search the
internet for details and be well prepared for the trade).
also, if scavenging materials, some places are "turbulent" in the
caustic zone, and its very difficult to collect stuff manually thru
the cargo hatch while your caustic sinks get filled up very fast, so
you may want to fit a collector limpet controller to make life much
easier.
type of ship build :
typical ax build (lots of non-guardian hull and module packages)
preferably cold (low emission and shield-less) for low detection rate
fast booster (500m/s or faster if possible)
below are links to the example build of my krait mk2 and imperial
cutter used for both scouting and scavenging the maelstrom and titan
area.
after 4 or 5 times of exploding, i have learned how to successfully
go in and out without being detected nor exploding/rebuy
when exiting the titan area, slowly move away until you are sure no
thargoids are on patrol near you.
then, start and keep boosting and sooner or later the emp will come
from behind, so just take advantage of that emp to kick you out to
the edge, but be prepared to immediately repair if needed
note:
if you need to collect caustic tissue samples, you will need the
anti-corrosion cargo rack, most likely the 4e 16t one, and a larger
ship might also allow you to stay there longer since they have more
hull, and you can put many caustic sink launchers on larger ships,
though the repair time also takes longer just to keep in mind...
oh, and last but not least, its probably good to take many limpets
until you are comfortable enough to make it in/out with ease.
krait:
https://edsy.org/s/v852K3M
cutter:
https://edsy.org/s/vrfSNxf
most of the needed modules can be unlocked (with gathered materials)
or purchased at any of the rescue mega ships scattered in the bubble.
key points:
low emission + heat spread power plant - at idle, the temp stays
around 17% avg so once next to a titan, as long as you dont panic and
stay very close to the surface of the titan hull while slowly flying
around, you will go un-noticed.
even if you get caught and get shot at, fly away close and flat against
the titan hull, slowly, without boosting (yes, without boosting to keep
temps low).
use the "landscape" of the titan and hide behind the bumps, go into the
crevasses, etc, and break the aggro line of sight, in a few moments they
stop aggro and it gets quiet again.
i did this multiple times, even with the cargo hatch open (read: very
slow flying while getting shot in the arse lol), and was able to break
off the aggro quite easily sometimes, which was both surprising and
very helpful...
find a nice hiding place, shoot off a repair limpet and good to go.
i dont know, but lights and night vision off might have a better chance
of lower detection, but i really cant tell if this is a thing...
The new glaive/hunter seems to have speed capabilities of up to 740-750 m/s
(i saw a ytube vid of someone with a racer i-courier pacing and out-pacing
the glaive without taking any damage, impressive is an understatement)
Initial attack (usually at hyper/interdictions) :
single homing like missile which disables and forces fsd shutdown.
the speed is probably in the 550 to 600 m/s or above range (not confirmed)
main cannons (pew pew gun) :
like the big interceptors, but less powerful
canopy on the krait breaks quite easily so the "A" grade with lightweight
engineered life support is highly recommended imho
repeated lightning attack at close range:
disables thrusters (so no boosting), makes you crawl while it shoots cannons
and sometimes circles around you while shooting, probably just to piss you off.
sometimes shoots the quad caustic missiles from close range (see below)
sometimes they fly from behind you, come in front of you and lightning you,
most likely just to show off that they can do it, and also to just piss you
off :p
quad caustic missiles :
you can out-boost the quad caustics if you can boost 530 or more and have
good distancing while boosting
i did a boost + fa/off + 180 flip, watched them explode way behind me while
flying backwards, but if the glaive catches up to you, it will lightning strike
and slow you down so the missles will most likely catch up and hit you.
not soo much damage as long as you have caustic sink launchers, they will
suck all the toxic green goo clean off your ship before any damage occurs
from the goo.
glaive shields pop up frequently, but are weaker compared to the larger
interceptors, so you can keep shooting it to break it faster and return to
giving hull damage again.
hint:
similar to a typical text-book cyclops fighting style, but at high-speeds
except the glaive has much softer hull, no hearts, and a shorter shield
life compared to the bigger interceptors since its "softer".
boost towards and pass it while shooting, then fa/off + 180 flip, keep
flying backwards while shooting, and when it comes close, boost towards and
pass it again, flip around and rinse and repeat the back and forth "dance",
keeping distance as much as possible but also in shooting range.
when boosting towards it, if you time it right, you will be able to avoid the
lighting either partially or all of it and go back to shooting quickly.
effective weapons against glaive/hunters:
guardian weapons do significant damage, but will melt down so not recommended.
enhanced ax multi cannons (e-axmc) - more range compared to the old axmc
(gimballed recommended over turreted since turreted damage is half of gimballed)
enhanced ax missile racks (e-axmr)
(effective, only if you can hit the fast buggers with such slow missiles...)
+ long range beam laser + heat vent to keep temps down
either 2 of each + laser, or 4 e-axmc + laser is good enough.
this is designed to just fight off glaive/hunters, ignore the other thargs
by boosting away and go into super cruise asap because if you stay around
too long in one place, more thargs drop in, and then more keep coming.
i tested 2 e-axmc and 2 e-axmr and as long as you can hit the fast moving
glaive/hunter with the slow missiles, it will do a significant amount of
damage, a lot more than just pew-pew-ing with mc, though a quad e-axmc
build does very good damage as well.
there was one time i hit the glaive with missiles and i dont know what i did
nor what i didnt, but it cried out a roar and seemed like it froze for a while
so i took the liberty of shooting the crap out of it with both mc and missiles
and was able to decrease the hp very fast down to about 30%, then it "woke up"
and went back to its "normal" speed attack routine dance whatever...
this battle ended with my hull at 95% which was a miracle for me because
i usually end up anywhere below 75% to 50% hull from getting hit too much...
unfortunately, i cannot reproduce this strange, very effective almost like a
stun lock situation, and of course, at these crucial moments, i forget to
hit the record button so no footage to re-examine either
any cmdrs out there who know about this or can reproduce, or even expand on
this "tactic" please do share!!
Interdiction vs Hyperdiction :
always submit to tharg interdictions:
immediately throttle to 0 and submit - why?
shorter fsd cool down
a bit easier to boost and run away without any damage
evading tharg interdictions seems next to impossible so you end up being
forced to submit anyway, which makes your fsd to cool down much much longer.
this means, they have a better window to attack you, mass lock you, etc
when you submit, there seems to be a short "grace period" before they
get really aggressive, so you have a short window to boost away without
getting chased to the point of attack distance nor mass-locking.
escaping a basilisk while in a slow ship:
most ships are likely slower than the basilisk since its speed is 530 m/s
so it will very likely catch up to you quickly.
this may not always work, but boost, fa/off 180 flip-a-roo, pop a heat
sink (or silent running) to kill the heat signature off your ship and
boost again towards and past it (while cold to avoid a "hard" lock-on
from the basilisk).
the basilisk flies by you soo fast and the momentum carries it a bit far
away when it passes you, so this is the chance to create distance, break
the mass lock and make the run for supercruise by boosting like its the
last gift to mankind :p
hyperdiction on the other hand, there is no option to submit, so you
have no choice but to have a long fsd cool down.
if its not a glaive/hunter, you most likely can keep boosting during
the long cool down to get enough distance to jump again without
being attacked.
if its a hunter/glaive, most likely cannot avoid fighting it if you
cannot out-boost it - i obviously cannot with my 530m/s krait mk2 so
i must engage with it before it finishes me off, but its fun and very
educational
in hopes that any of the info above helps,
good luck and o7 to all cmdrs out there