Elite: General talk

User167261
15 Sep 2022, 6:43pm
ArtieBut they told it, it's openly said by Bruce(Frontier) that the Horizons 4.0 is there to show players what Odyssey may bring and that they hope it will convince them to buy it. Although some people may not like it, it's a fair approach (it's something for players but also something for Frontier). The pre-update options aren't taken back, there was just added an option to try 4.0 game version.


Today they did, yes. They didn't do so explicitly before, did they? Unless I missed it somehow.

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 17 Sep 2022, 4:28pm
Artie
15 Sep 2022, 6:48pm
Broken Mess
Today they did, yes. They didn't do so explicitly before, did they? Unless I missed it somehow.

They did, a month ago (the official announcement).

Last edit: 17 Sep 2022, 4:28pm
User167261
15 Sep 2022, 6:54pm
In the coming weeks we plan to offer the option for PC players to launch the game on the 4.0 codebase to try it out.

Odyssey will still be an optional upgrade and necessary for on-foot content.

Players will still need to have the same version (Horizons or Odyssey) to instance together in game.

When the option to launch in 4.0 is made available to all PC players, instancing will be separate between 3.8 and 4.0 (as it has always been) and separate between Horizons and Odyssey on 4.0. There's no final state to confirm in situations like this which are always open to re-evaluation. If the situation changes, we'll make an announcement to that effect.


This is the relevant bit I think from that link - unless I'm dim it does not state anywhere that Odyssey owners won't have access to Horizons 4.0.

Granted, it's the usual opaque communication style that always drives me up the walls with Frontier, it's vague enough that you could read more than one statement into it.

The option to launch in 4.0 is made available to all PC players can mean that after Odyssey owners already have that it's now -only- the Horizons players turn, but you could read it more at face value and assume that all PC players will be able to access 4.0 (regardless of the base game or the optional DLC, which if you want to play on the 4.0 client is suddenly no longer optional by the looks of things).

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 17 Sep 2022, 4:28pm
Sakashiro
15 Sep 2022, 7:05pm
Broken MessI wonder now if Horizons 4.0 is in fact a completely separate install - I always assumed that Horizons 4.0 would be Odyssey 'lite' with the relevant content ringfenced (which would have explained why Odyssey content doesn't really intersect much with Horizons gameplay).

The original plan was to completely replace client 3.8 with client 4.0 on all platforms. Using command line options it's already possible to run client 4.0 in three different modes: base game, Horizons, and Odyssey. It was a logical evolution of client 3.8 which could run in the first two modes while allowing shared instances wherever applicable.

But now it seems they built a stripped version of client 4.0 specifically for Horizons. They peddle it as a tech demo, but it's misleading as it doesn't really demo any Odyssey-specific content. People who decide to purchase Odyssey based on their experience with Horizons 4.0 may be in for a nasty surprise, once they visit Odyssey's settlements for the first time and see the stuttering and low frame rates there.

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 17 Sep 2022, 4:28pm
User167261
15 Sep 2022, 7:15pm
Yuna Sakashiro
Broken MessI wonder now if Horizons 4.0 is in fact a completely separate install - I always assumed that Horizons 4.0 would be Odyssey 'lite' with the relevant content ringfenced (which would have explained why Odyssey content doesn't really intersect much with Horizons gameplay).


The original plan was to completely replace client 3.8 with client 4.0 on all platforms. Using command line options it's already possible to run client 4.0 in three different modes: base game, Horizons, and Odyssey. It was a logical evolution of client 3.8 which could run in the first two modes while allowing shared instances wherever applicable.

But now it seems they built a stripped version of client 4.0 specifically for Horizons. They peddle it as a tech demo, but it's misleading as it doesn't really demo any Odyssey-specific content. People who decide to purchase Odyssey based on their experience with Horizons 4.0 may be in for a nasty surprise, once they visit Odyssey's settlements for the first time and see the stuttering and low frame rates there.


Oh absolutely on the latter point - that crossed my mind previously but the funny thing is, I'm one of those weirdos who prefer almost all of Horizons 3.8 visuals (and the paintjobs are all the way they should be without exception....), but I still play mostly on Odyssey because well I bought it but it's the supported version that's getting future content, unlike 3.8. And I don't think I'm on my own meaning there could well be quite a few people being put off by the visuals alone and forfeiting going ahead with buying EDO.

I do remember your post during the Alpha with the Horizons features only screenshot btw, which is why I kept thinking we're talking about the same client here. I'm still not convinced they came up with a trimmed down version, just saw a post in the 4.0 thread by Northpin suggesting that the install seems about the same size as Odyssey. Which wouldn't surprise me at all. - EDIT: saw a few posts on Steam confirming the EDH 4.0 install is 50GB. So ugh, yeah.

I do think that sadly it really is as Bruce explained - they're basically trying to squeeze as many conversion sales out of this as possible, and giving Horizons 4.0 to Odyssey owners would hamper that because if one is not interested in on-foot content but wants to play with their Odyssey mates -and- also enjoy future content, then they'll have to get their wallet out.

PS - fwiw I always thought Frontier were one of the 'good guys' hence my heavy financial investment in this game until 2021, but these kind of moves resemble what the likes of EA, Beth et al normally pull off. Things change I guess.

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 17 Sep 2022, 4:28pm
Artie
15 Sep 2022, 8:55pm
Broken Mess
This is the relevant bit I think from that link - unless I'm dim it does not state anywhere that Odyssey owners won't have access to Horizons 4.0.

Granted, it's the usual opaque communication style that always drives me up the walls with Frontier, it's vague enough that you could read more than one statement into it.

I don't know, the statement "...instancing will be separate between 3.8 and 4.0 (as it has always been) and separate between Horizons and Odyssey on 4.0..." seemed quite clear to me.

Last edit: 17 Sep 2022, 4:28pm
User167261
15 Sep 2022, 9:17pm
Artie
Broken Mess
This is the relevant bit I think from that link - unless I'm dim it does not state anywhere that Odyssey owners won't have access to Horizons 4.0.

Granted, it's the usual opaque communication style that always drives me up the walls with Frontier, it's vague enough that you could read more than one statement into it.


I don't know, the statement "...instancing will be separate between 3.8 and 4.0 (as it has always been) and separate between Horizons and Odyssey on 4.0..." seemed quite clear to me.


Maybe we're talking past each other (seen the exact same debate on the forum fwiw) - I'm not talking about instancing between Odyssey and Horizons, but the ability of Odyssey players launching Horizons 4.0 to be able to instance with their Horizons only buddies on the same client version, without those Horizons only guys having to buy the DLC if they're not interested in doing so.

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 17 Sep 2022, 4:28pm
Artie
15 Sep 2022, 9:36pm
Broken Mess
Maybe we're talking past each other (seen the exact same debate on the forum fwiw) - I'm not talking about instancing between Odyssey and Horizons, but the ability of Odyssey players launching Horizons 4.0 to be able to instance with their Horizons only buddies on the same client version, without those Horizons only guys having to buy the DLC if they're not interested in doing so.

Ah, you are right, I've misread your reply. That option (more precisely a lack of it) isn't stated there indeed and I am not sure if it was mentioned elsewhere or not.

Last edit: 17 Sep 2022, 4:28pm
Sakashiro
15 Sep 2022, 10:04pm
Broken MessI'm still not convinced they came up with a trimmed down version, just saw a post in the 4.0 thread by Northpin suggesting that the install seems about the same size as Odyssey. Which wouldn't surprise me at all. - EDIT: saw a few posts on Steam confirming the EDH 4.0 install is 50GB. So ugh, yeah.

Yes, I thought they had trimmed it to make it a smaller download, but it's actually a full Odyssey install. It just runs in Horizons mode.

What pisses me off is that they call it a tech demo they can't give to Odyssey owners. That's a lie. We already have it installed, but they are denying us the corresponding launcher entry to keep us from instancing with EDH folks. And to nudge those EDH folks into buying EDO, of course. It runs contrary to all their promises of last year.

FDev's previous failures could be blamed on incompetence, but this latest move is something else. I will never buy any of their products again.

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 17 Sep 2022, 4:28pm
Episparh
15 Sep 2022, 10:22pm
Yuna Sakashiro

FDev's previous failures could be blamed on incompetence.....


This is naive considering how they've launched EDO and EDH(although I wasn't here at that time the information is available for the one who wants to find it)

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 17 Sep 2022, 4:28pm
User167261
15 Sep 2022, 10:27pm
Yuna Sakashiro
Broken MessI'm still not convinced they came up with a trimmed down version, just saw a post in the 4.0 thread by Northpin suggesting that the install seems about the same size as Odyssey. Which wouldn't surprise me at all. - EDIT: saw a few posts on Steam confirming the EDH 4.0 install is 50GB. So ugh, yeah.


Yes, I thought they had trimmed it to make it a smaller download, but it's actually a full Odyssey install. It just runs in Horizons mode.

What pisses me off is that they call it a tech demo they can't give to Odyssey owners. That's a lie. We already have it installed, but they are denying us the corresponding launcher entry to keep us from instancing with EDH folks. And to nudge those EDH folks into buying EDO, of course. It runs contrary to all their promises of last year.

FDev's previous failures could be blamed on incompetence, but this latest move is something else. I will never buy any of their products again.


I thought about it earlier whether it was justified to call this episode scummy, but after reading Bruce's posts (not just one but several admitting it - up until then I hoped for botched communication) absolutely it is - I'm actually a bit bewildered that they as a company are happy to disclose it so openly and even imply they're doing players a favour/being generous. Shockingly tone deaf.

Having said that, when I see the various excuses and talk of it being a "gift" and aforementioned "tech demo" perhaps this is exactly what the playerbase deserves. It's kinda depressing how quickly it's getting sucked up as being perfectly reasonable to do, and many posters don't even seem to grasp what Frontier are doing here.

My wallet's been closed since being mislead as part of the so called Alpha release, with this now they just seem to double down on the dishonesty.

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 17 Sep 2022, 4:28pm
Sakashiro
15 Sep 2022, 10:54pm
EpisparhThis is naive considering how they've launched EDO and EDH(although I wasn't here at that time the information is available for the one who wants to find it)

Fair enough, but I think they're getting worse. Is it due to the new CEO?

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 17 Sep 2022, 4:27pm
Tiffany Yür
16 Sep 2022, 3:53am
I'm mainly concerned of the performance requirement of Horizon 4.0 vs Horizon 3.8. I have no interest in FPS though pVe is ok. My computer can just run the 3.8 version on low settings and the potential additional burden that may come with 4.0 may end my enjoyment all together. I'm also not bothered with the instancing issue at least right now since I'm somewhat far out of the Bubble. Switched to solo mode after getting 5 Kly out anyway, hoping it would be less taxing to the computer. Maybe it is. Probably going back to open mode when I get back to inhabited areas, but I wish to know the performance differences between 3.8 Horizon and 4.0 Horizon. Probably too early to ask if someone has done comparisons.

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 17 Sep 2022, 4:29pm
Nick Nova
16 Sep 2022, 8:40am
I'm torn about the whole 4.0 thing.
Further splitting of the playerbase is a bad idea, I had really hoped that we would finally be unified.
On the other hand, many people who play elite have little interrest in the on foot gameplay. Giving away edh 4.0 with the ability to instance with edo owners would leave basically zero incentive to buy odyssey. Of course they want to sell copies. Now people who don't want to buy edo can at least get story content for free. I think it's a nice thought together with the console transfer.

What leaves a bad taste in the mouth is how they have handled the whole thing. Last year they basically promised the codebases would be united, I dont think they explicitly said we would all be able to instance together but of course that was assumed. They have been everything but clear up until the last moment and now shrugs questions off with "just buy edo lol".

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 17 Sep 2022, 4:27pm
User167261
16 Sep 2022, 9:00am
If anything, the release of Horizons 4.0 just underlines how thin the extra content really is if you're adamantly not bothered about on-foot stuff ... the only thing that might interest ship focused Elite players to buy Odyssey is access to atmo worlds - which are essentially just an added shader for the skybox, and while pretty enough, doesn't add any gameplay as such ... and exo biology which involves holding a button 3 times while staring at inanimate space flowers.

I did extensively play the on-foot content (I have a major OCD problem, admittedly), grinded for weeks on weeks to get 3 suits and most weapons to G5 --- and I want to stress that without this site's existence tracking required mats I would've given up at the beginning because the game doesn't do squat helping you with this --- but ultimately it all just leaves an empty feeling at the end of it because it's so ringfenced from the rest of the game. I wish Frontier had not introduced legs at all and instead focused their efforts on the strong points of the game instead. Water under a bridge of course.

But Sally just posted an announcement of the Steam sale extending to the Frontier store, so I guess they're going all in now trying to shift copies. Because Odyssey on its own merits isn't able to do it at its RRP. And the first negative posts about 4.0's visual "upgrades" are trickling in as well now. I would strongly advise anyone who's on the fence to go with Steam (and I say this as a previous die-hard Frontier store supporter) because it's probably more likely to get a refund through that than if buying direct.

Post edited/moved by: Artie, 17 Sep 2022, 4:27pm

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