Elite: Lore

Jubei Himura
27 Feb 2018, 8:59pm
Jubei Himura
(Wettoast) Wanda FersegiHas there been any indication about what will happen with the guardian story in 3.0 ? Or if we will ever see any live ones in future updates ?



I believe that the new Ram Tah CG is the start.


Can somebody please pickup that phone?

...cause I f***ing called it!!
Phelbore
27 Feb 2018, 9:12pm
Jubei Himura Can somebody please pickup that phone?

...cause I f***ing called it!!


Hello, yeah, quit calling this number, we're on the do not call list!
(Wettoast) Wanda Fersegi
27 Feb 2018, 10:31pm
Jubei Himura
Jubei Himura
(Wettoast) Wanda FersegiHas there been any indication about what will happen with the guardian story in 3.0 ? Or if we will ever see any live ones in future updates ?




I believe that the new Ram Tah CG is the start.



Can somebody please pickup that phone?

...cause I f***ing called it!!



Pshhh
LordPsymon
28 Feb 2018, 2:58am
Jubei Himura
Jubei Himura
(Wettoast) Wanda FersegiHas there been any indication about what will happen with the guardian story in 3.0 ? Or if we will ever see any live ones in future updates ?




I believe that the new Ram Tah CG is the start.



Can somebody please pickup that phone?

...cause I f***ing called it!!


Hey! I know that reference
Martinjh99
28 Feb 2018, 11:22am
Hey Wanda saw this article on Galnet yesterday - If you wanna find out more about Guardians you might have to go looking for their bases....

The engineer Ram Tah, a leading expert on the mysterious Guardians, has requested help in locating undiscovered sites from the ancient alien race. He has issued the following statement:

“The artefacts recently delivered to me have been subjected to intense molecular analysis. As a result, I have deduced the possibility of Guardian sites in three specific systems: Col 173 Sector QU-O d6-25, HD 63154 and Synuefe EU-Q c21-10.”
(Wettoast) Wanda Fersegi
01 Mar 2018, 1:16am
Are relativistic weapons possible in the elite universe? By that, I mean accelerating something the size of a sidewinder to near the speed of light to cause massive damage due to its sheer speed? Also yes I've familiarized myself with the new guardian structures.
User42839
01 Mar 2018, 9:17am
(Wettoast) Wanda FersegiAre relativistic weapons possible in the elite universe? By that, I mean accelerating something the size of a sidewinder to near the speed of light to cause massive damage due to its sheer speed? Also yes I've familiarized myself with the new guardian structures.


First, i think they would need to do something about the weapons we have now. And the three most basic laws of physics, out of witch at least 2 are broken. Y'know... the an object in motion stays in motion unless acted on by another force , witch is why lasers have 3 km range and cannon shells/plasma accelerator bolts travel only sofar until they just vanish like they've never even existed; or the every action has an equal and opposite reaction , witch is why ramming works so well an it seems so realistic... y'know.. stuff like that (btw, sry if i sound a bit sarcastic making these remarks. they are meant to be perceived as sarcastic because they are )

I mean, i'm not asking here for weapon ranges like EVE has, or a Havok based physics engine. No, that would be too much. But these tiny details will always be that thorn in the side of Elite, ppl will always remember that first game that emulated a 1:1 scale galaxy but had weapons that vanished into thin space after a certain range and collision mechanics that made no sense.

Also, about accelerating a sidewinder sized object to generate relativistic damage (kinetic impactor/mass accelerator)... well yo needn't look any further than the good ol' railgun. As op as it needs to be, and now, with the addition of the guardian gauss cannon, an even more op version is available (140 armor pen i mean WTH)
User91901
02 Mar 2018, 5:30pm
To be honest, there's a reason why the weaponry isn't truly realistic at all. Aside of rule of cool, it wouldn't be really exciting to be killed by a target you cannot even see, away from +30.000 meters. That said, it would also make gimballed weaponry useless.

Longer and more scientific approach to real-life space combat.

Last edit: 02 Mar 2018, 5:39pm
User42839
02 Mar 2018, 11:08pm
Gimbal is just another way of saying computer assisted targeting. And i'm willing to bet computers are gonna get pretty advanced in 1300 years, given how many breakthroughs were made in the last decade alone. If you ignore exotic alternate computing methods, like quantum computing, and just focus on silicon based processors with the current fin-fet technology (witch has a minimum print size per transistor of 10 nanometers) and factor in a few very likely to happen improvements in data storage, data transfer speed and operating system stability and efficiency, coupled with some very likely new OS architectures (x86-64 won't be all that there is forever) and you get something that can easily do hundreds or even thousands of Teraflops of calculations per second and fit in the palm of your hand. Now, i believe it doesn't take too much to notice that the panels and the dashboards arrayed around you in the ship's cockpit are bigger than your hand (most likely a lot of the processing power should and will be placed in the cockpit, no reason to expose sensitive and no doubt vital equipment to extreme temperature or vibration by placing it near the the power plant, engine and so on...)... i mean duh. And seeing them as big as they are may just mean they have alot of processing power potential. We've also done a lot of progress regarding sensors, with infrared, radar and ladar just to name a few. In the far future it's quite possible someone will figure out how to make a gravimetric sensor work too, or even an x-ray or ultraviolet one, because the closer you get to the higher end of the light spectrum, the less you will have problems with light interference or other obstacles that may interfere with your scanner. Also, about the weapons themselves; i don't think i need to begin explaining what many scientists have stressed and repeated over and over again. Space is Empty. There's really nothing colliding with whatever it is that comes into contact with deep space. Be it a laser particle or projectile. And if we are to believe our basic physics is solid then the first law states that an object that begins to move will keep doing so until something stops it from moving , and since we know space is Empty, then whatever it is that begins to move will keep moving forever. Or until it hits something .

But in all seriousness, what do we know so far. Well, we know that space is empty and because of that many if not all weapons have virtually limitless range, we know that computing power is likely to go only up and we know that sensor technology to enable efficient long range scanning exists even today (we're talking tens of kilometers here, any more and you have to contend with time-lag, witch gives your enemy the opportunity to dodge whatever it is you're shooting them with). So, for all intents and purposes, Elite should be a long range sniping game if we're to add realism to the table, but from a gameplay perspective i think the only limiting factor should be sensor strength and the enemy's ability to conceal heat or even to employ optical cloaking , witch will shift gameplay away from actual fighting towards avoiding taking damage at any costs. Btw, we haven't even got to the part where we calculate the potential damage output improvements that will most likely be implemented in the future, judging current progress being made. So there's also that to talk about.. the possibility that in the future, ships will probably shoot micro-black holes at each other, rendering armor and shielding obsolete. So yea.. good times. Btw, i know that given what we already know about thermodynamics and heat in general, firing a cannon in space is a very bad idea because 1: space (empty, remember?) and 2: heat build-up from the shot itself. Add multiple shots together and the heat builds up fast; and since it all happens in space, the heat can't dissipate, builds up in the weapon and ends up melting it... but that's only gonna happen if you use conventional cannons. Nobody said anything about suspending the shell in an electromagnetic field and firing it without touching the barrel. So all those ppl complaining about melting barrels in space on youtube can just zip it. I'm sure ppl in the far future will know how to perform combat in space .

Man, i filled you up with links, didn't i? Sry about that. But being someone that played the original mass effect series, reading all the entries and all that, when i see things like 'limited weapon ranges' in space, or stuff like 'ramming an asteroid doesn't even nudge it' or the occasional 'fixed-in-space-and-time space debris that cannot be moved' that you find sometimes in signal sources... stuff like that it's just pure blasphemy. No way that can pass for realistic. Please don't take my post as a burn, or anything like that; it's not intended to be perceived as hostile in any way. That being said, Peace.

Last edit: 02 Mar 2018, 11:53pm
Phelbore
02 Mar 2018, 11:53pm
Septimus Raven...


Most of this is just babbling which (and notice the spelling there) is forgetting a number of very important facts:
  1. All this has to be simulated on modern computers which cannot handle tracking hundreds or thousands of missed shots per fight, let alone debris shot off ships
  2. Physics.  Heat doesn't dissipate without going somewhere.  No matter how you accelerate an object to high speed, it takes power.  Nothing can be 100% efficient, the inefficiency is heat.  Heat needs to go somewhere, but in a vacuum it has nowhere to go (well, it can be lost by black-body radiation which is slow.)
  3. Ok, I lied, it's just two things that disagree with 90% of your post.
User42839
03 Mar 2018, 12:26am
I appreciate the feedback and i am also sorry about any misspelled words and so on and so forth

However, that does not change the fact that some things happening in the only viable 1:1 scale simulation of our galaxy currently available on the market are somewhat daft. And let's be honest with ourselves for a second, some weapon ranges could be improved a lil' bit. It's not crazy to think that a laser could be effective at 10 km and coupled with computer assisted tracking, could land a successful hit on a moving target situated at the afore mentioned range. But that's just wishful thinking, and same could be said about the idea of being able to gradually empty a haz res for example, by slowly nudging asteroids left and right between fights. I dunno, it just sounds like a neat little trick you could do if you're like me, and dislike accidentally bumping into them when your shields are low and you're fighting a 2 elite anaconda team (that actually happen today as a matter of fact)... y'know.. every once in a while, after a fight, waiting for the shields to charge and then you notice an asteroid and you just want to push it out of the field... but you can't... because the engine isn't programmed to handle the asteroids, just the ships.. and even then, weird things happen. Anyway, be that as it may, we all have our preferences. I've said my bit about my hopes and expectations, even made a few spelling errors (not a native english speaker, so sorry ) and to top it all off, i'm not even an expert in astrophysics... am i? Given that i lack some very basic notions regarding heat propagation and the way it influences propulsion or the lack of, and by extension, range.

But you don't need to be a scientist to notice some very protruding mishaps when it comes to realism in the game, and how they may be alleviated. If only. Don't hate me, i just like nitpicking.
Phelbore
03 Mar 2018, 2:44am
Septimus RavenI appreciate the feedback and i am also sorry about any misspelled words and so on and so forth

However, that does not change the fact that some things happening in the only viable 1:1 scale simulation of our galaxy currently available on the market are somewhat daft. And let's be honest with ourselves for a second, some weapon ranges could be improved a lil' bit. It's not crazy to think that a laser could be effective at 10 km and coupled with computer assisted tracking, could land a successful hit on a moving target situated at the afore mentioned range. But that's just wishful thinking, and same could be said about the idea of being able to gradually empty a haz res for example, by slowly nudging asteroids left and right between fights. I dunno, it just sounds like a neat little trick you could do if you're like me, and dislike accidentally bumping into them when your shields are low and you're fighting a 2 elite anaconda team (that actually happen today as a matter of fact)... y'know.. every once in a while, after a fight, waiting for the shields to charge and then you notice an asteroid and you just want to push it out of the field... but you can't... because the engine isn't programmed to handle the asteroids, just the ships.. and even then, weird things happen. Anyway, be that as it may, we all have our preferences. I've said my bit about my hopes and expectations, even made a few spelling errors (not a native english speaker, so sorry ) and to top it all off, i'm not even an expert in astrophysics... am i? Given that i lack some very basic notions regarding heat propagation and the way it influences propulsion or the lack of, and by extension, range.

But you don't need to be a scientist to notice some very protruding mishaps when it comes to realism in the game, and how they may be alleviated. If only. Don't hate me, i just like nitpicking.

Sorry, I may have been a bit harsh. Either way, we're talking about the engine limitations and real physics when this is the Lore forum. Artie, would you be kind enough to move these to General, with Septimus Raven's permission, of course.
LordPsymon
03 Mar 2018, 2:48am
Holy wall of text. My advice would be to separate that out into paragraphs to make it easier to follow.
Gaavera
03 Mar 2018, 3:06am
Ive noticed someting about the Farragut class cruiser: all of its major weapons systems are mostly concentrated on the sides. How does it fire and adversaires in front of it?
LordPsymon
03 Mar 2018, 3:35am
It's designed for broadside combat. If there's small foes ahead of it, it should have a fleet of ships to swat them as it maneuvers to bring it's broadsides to bear.

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