Elite: Lore

The Presence
04 Jan 2018, 11:35pm
Just out of interest, what do you do with the crew? Kill them? (makes you a murderer and worse than a slaver), take them prisoner? (Does that make you any better than a slaver? Let them loose? (so they can do it all again? What have you accomplished?) Re-educate them (How exactly are you going to "Re-programme a life-time of doing what they believe is right?). Just playing Devil's Advocate here... I laud what you're doing but more thought needs to go into the how of it
User78245
05 Jan 2018, 12:10am
Oh, I have my plans for the pirates...
User91901
05 Jan 2018, 11:54am
I am sort of tempted to think that kinetic weaponry is still in use after all these years as side-arms due to their quite reliable nature. Even if there are handheld lasers, I think still the most efficient weapon is heavily remodified "normal" guns and rifles.

I think that Expanse-like wrist-mounted "miniguns" would be a thing there. And rear-mounted heat-seaking/laser-lead missiles.
User78245
05 Jan 2018, 4:49pm
Maybe, but probably only on a planet surface, or if the holder of the weapon is kind of dumb. The problem with ballistic/kinetic weaponry in space, other than the danger of the projectiles unsealing an enclosed compartment to vacuum, is Newton's laws of motion. When you fire a bullet, it eventually loses velocity due to both gravity and air resistance. In space, when you fire a projectile it keeps going and going in the direction and at the same velocity you fired it, until it interacts with either a gravitational field or a solid object. Then it bounces off in a new direction at a new velocity. It's been implied in various parts of the Elite background that our ships do not have artificial gravity. That there are no magic gravity generators, Elite generates gravity in space the old-fashioned way: by spinning an object. Take a look at any megaship or the Majestic-class interdictor.

That being said, would you really want to fire a projectile weapon in an enclosed space where a ricochet could send a bullet pinging back in your direction at faster than the speed of sound (would be if you were on Earth)? I can imagine how this conversation goes in my headcanon: "Oi, let's take the SMGs!" "For the last time, no. That's why your MOS is mess crank and not infantry."

On the other hand, kinetic weaponry is great for orbital bombardment. You drop a tungsten rod the size and shape of a telephone pole from orbit. No warhead to worry about failing, no nuclear fallout, no energy concerns, just gravity. Kinetic orbital bombardment is a common sci fi trope, and is far more scary than a nuclear weapon or a laser beam when you sit and think about it with interstellar space travel in mind: kinetic bombardment, relativistic kill vehicle
User23543
05 Jan 2018, 5:05pm
Hey, I know that video.
User78245
05 Jan 2018, 5:09pm
Yes, that's the kind of talk I like seeing in my sci fi.
User23543
05 Jan 2018, 5:11pm
Damon8r351Yes, that's the kind of talk I like seeing in my sci fi.


'No credit for partial answers, maggot!' still slays me.
Phelbore
05 Jan 2018, 5:16pm
Bullets tend to be designed to deform on impact, you want to knock a big dirty hole in the target, not punch a nice clean hole. Richocets lose a lot of energy from this, I wouldn't want tp get hit in the eye or throat with it, but body armor? Not too concerned. Also, a deformed projectile won't penetrate much of anything. Yeah, it might hurt, but in station or on a ship, that same atmosphere as on planet is slowing it down. Anything that can tank a torpedo is going to shrug off a bullet.

As far as nuke vs kinetic bombardment, kinetic is far cheaper and more destructive, but for terror? Nuke all the way. The fallout's not even the bad part, an atmospheric burst generates an EMP that knocks out a huge area's electronics (a great precursor to invasion).

tl;dr
I really don't see a huge issue with firearms for military (or even civilian in ship/in station use). Depending on the goal, both kinetic and nuclear weapons seem viable (but nukes will be vilified).
Greybeard LXI
05 Jan 2018, 5:37pm
I do not think I would want a miniature sun exploding in the middle of my space ship, and that's what I think of when I think of a plasma round. Lots of potential to damage the more fragile interior parts of the ship. Secondary fires would also be a consideration.

The limited amount of environment (air, space) on a ship would probably make aerosols like pepper bombs a problem.

Any weapon that would do significant damage to a person would also be a risk to ship interiors. I'm not talking about bulkheads between module slots, but all parts of the modules. Unless you have reinforced the module (grade B) it would be designed for less weight and that means no built in protection.

Long range weapons (and the range is probably short on player ships) would be kinetic with rubber or plastic bullets. The bullets would impart part of their energy and momentum to the target (the one you were really aiming at, not the one you thought you were aiming at) and the rest to deforming the bullet and preventing ricochet.

I think most combat would be at very short range and the chosen weapon would be the cutlass.

Or maybe I don't appreciate how big some of the large ships would be.
User23543
05 Jan 2018, 5:41pm
The ships are pretty large, and I suspect considering what a lot of the modules do some paltry fire arms aren't going to do any damage.  Besides, just think when your shields go down and enemy fire pierces the hull - modules won't start malfunctioning until UNDER 80% integrity.

Last edit: 05 Jan 2018, 6:03pm
Phelbore
05 Jan 2018, 5:47pm
To handle the high G forces of space travel the walls are going to be fairly sturdy, small arms might dent them. And ships are huge! A Beluga is similar in size to a Nimitz class aircraft carrier (not as long, bit wider) which holds around 5,000 crew and is refered to as a floating city. Even a Sidewinder is comparable to a small 2-story house.
Greybeard LXI
05 Jan 2018, 9:51pm
A successful Day! I've learned something!
User91901
06 Jan 2018, 12:41pm
Shouldn't ship moving around using its engines have at least partial gravity? I mean, I am not 100% sure how it would work in case of ship moving around, but then I see the point when we are talking about lifeless hulks that are being boarded.

Damn, this is actually pretty tricky subject here. There's no weaponry, except for non-lethal one, which wouldn't make mess inside interiors of the ships. Lasers can make holes in hull (you do not want that unless ship is depressurised already), kinetics can kill you with ricochet and plasma... plasma burns and heats and burns stuff. Pretty much you don't want all that oxygen go on fire.
Rebecca Hail
06 Jan 2018, 1:01pm
Not really.

Your outer ship hull and it's supporting structure can take hits from thermal and kinetic weapons far larger than anything you can possibly carry around by hand. Breaching the hull with them would be nearly impossible.

As Phelbore already said, ricochets lose a lot of their kinetic energy + deform. A boarding team equipped with suitable armor, which is pretty much necessary when EVA boarding, shouldn't have a problem with them.

Plasma, idk. One should probably refrain from setting things inside a spaceship on fire, but on the other hand, if you have your own life support, why should you care?

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