Elite: Odyssey

12 Jun 2022, 9:19pm
Challenge
You make it sound like no trader can ever out run or out maneuver a combat ship. This is simply not true. Not, at least, according to some of the streamers I've watched and comments I've read here and among other places. Engineered bits, Sensor signature reduction, as well as a pilot's skill in evasive maneuvers all play a part.

And they really only have to do it long enough to enable a re-engagement of the FSD.


I am not sure what streamers are you watching nor I care. In my book surviving few seconds to high wake does not count for outrunning and outmaneuvering. If you do not submit to interdiction you are doomed.

Most of the trade ships are like sitting ducks for a proper combat ship and then they can only survive if utilizing max speed and boost intervals with high shield , armor and module protection...
It doesn't matter if you jettison your cargo or not.
12 Jun 2022, 9:29pm
EpisparhIt doesn't matter if you jettison your cargo or not.

Yep. The only ships where it would make any non-negligible difference are the smallest ship with a low cargo capacity which are not typically used for trading anyway. For any large ship or most if not all of the medium ships the difference between full/empty speed and acceleration is trivial. If you submit and wake then cargo is irrelevant altogether.
12 Jun 2022, 10:03pm
A maxed engineered Type 6 could actually outrun a PVP FDL according to Coriolis (empty I assume) but I mean... Wasting all those mats for a Type 6?
12 Jun 2022, 10:10pm
Episparh[quote=Challenge]

I am not sure what streamers are you watching nor I care. In my book surviving few seconds to high wake does not count for outrunning and outmaneuvering. If you do not submit to interdiction you are doomed.

[/img]


But that is exactly the goal of evasion: stay alive long enough to get away. You expect someone to stand and fight a dedicated combat ship in a trader? Foolish at best suicidal at worst.
13 Jun 2022, 11:32am
Challenge
Episparh
Challenge

I am not sure what streamers are you watching nor I care. In my book surviving few seconds to high wake does not count for outrunning and outmaneuvering. If you do not submit to interdiction you are doomed. [/img]


But that is exactly the goal of evasion: stay alive long enough to get away. You expect someone to stand and fight a dedicated combat ship in a trader? Foolish at best suicidal at worst.



The reality is that in a loaded trade ship you are outclassed by combat ships designed for the task in all respects. You cannot expect to outrun them loaded at all, even empty most ships will get run down, and the length of time a keybound 'derp all cargo' takes too long to see the expected speed boost to matter. As for evasion, it is smart to try but if you have not submitted to the interdiction as Epi suggested you're just going to die tired unless you have sufficient shields for the task.

As for the 'muh, I saw it in er video!'... Most of that content is edited, staged, and/or cherrypicked. It is naive to rely on data supplied by people whose only real concern is attention/clicks.

You want to survive an interdiction? Have shields/HRP as ship allows, submit to the interdiction, hyperspace to nearby system asap, and jink/evade as much as possible to avoid getting hit by FSD resetting missiles or shield popping torps. The idea that dumping cargo for a speed boost will save you is complete fantasy BS. If it's a pirate, dumping enough cargo to satisfy their demands is a separate issue altogether.
Conclusion: the 'Dump all Cargo' keybind is an absolute waste of a bind and should be assigned to something else immediately. You will never use it. Even IF you somehow find a reason to want to dump all cargo it is trivial to just do it from the right Inventory panel anyways.
13 Jun 2022, 1:56pm
Burstar
Challenge
Episparh

But that is exactly the goal of evasion: stay alive long enough to get away. You expect someone to stand and fight a dedicated combat ship in a trader? Foolish at best suicidal at worst.





The reality is that in a loaded trade ship you are outclassed by combat ships designed for the task in all respects. You cannot expect to outrun them loaded at all, even empty most ships will get run down, and the length of time a keybound 'derp all cargo' takes too long to see the expected speed boost to matter. As for evasion, it is smart to try but if you have not submitted to the interdiction as Epi suggested you're just going to die tired unless you have sufficient shields for the task.

As for the 'muh, I saw it in er video!'... Most of that content is edited, staged, and/or cherrypicked. It is naive to rely on data supplied by people whose only real concern is attention/clicks.

You want to survive an interdiction? Have shields/HRP as ship allows, submit to the interdiction, hyperspace to nearby system asap, and jink/evade as much as possible to avoid getting hit by FSD resetting missiles or shield popping torps. The idea that dumping cargo for a speed boost will save you is complete fantasy BS. If it's a pirate, dumping enough cargo to satisfy their demands is a separate issue altogether.
Conclusion: the 'Dump all Cargo' keybind is an absolute waste of a bind and should be assigned to something else immediately. You will never use it. Even IF you somehow find a reason to want to dump all cargo it is trivial to just do it from the right Inventory panel anyways.



Hmmm im not convinced. A well put together Cutter is greased lightning in a straight line. And with chaff and other counter measures can easily make a run for it, and supercruise away if needs be.
13 Jun 2022, 3:53pm
LOL chaff. Because you def need to be concerned with gankers using gimballed weapons

The 'greased lighting' giant target that is the Cutter you're referring to can do maybe 520m/s in a straight line or easy to shoot at graceful curves. 520m/s is fast, but not as fast as the gankers who know that's your top speed and chose to pull you over anyways. It survives because of the shields, not due to its speed.


Last edit: 13 Jun 2022, 4:04pm
13 Jun 2022, 4:00pm
BurstarLOL chaff.

Gankers with gimbals!
13 Jun 2022, 4:47pm
BurstarIt survives because of the shields, not due to its speed.

And because it low-wakes like a boss.
13 Jun 2022, 4:57pm
BurstarLOL chaff. Because you def need to be concerned with gankers using gimballed weapons

The 'greased lighting' giant target that is the Cutter you're referring to can do maybe 520m/s in a straight line or easy to shoot at graceful curves. 520m/s is fast, but not as fast as the gankers who know that's your top speed and chose to pull you over anyways. It survives because of the shields, not due to its speed.



The point being its fast enough and hard enough that it can quite easily get away.
But indeed lol on the chaff gag. All that said. You don't die to anyone if you know what you are doing.
13 Jun 2022, 5:05pm
DingBatDave
BurstarLOL chaff. Because you def need to be concerned with gankers using gimballed weapons

The 'greased lighting' giant target that is the Cutter you're referring to can do maybe 520m/s in a straight line or easy to shoot at graceful curves. 520m/s is fast, but not as fast as the gankers who know that's your top speed and chose to pull you over anyways. It survives because of the shields, not due to its speed.


The point being its fast enough and hard enough that it can quite easily get away.
But indeed lol on the chaff gag. All that said. You don't die to anyone if you know what you are doing.


This is becoming all about Cutter. It's a good ship. If you absolutely need to arrive at your destination in open it's a strong choice. That said, the point stands: even in a cutter, derping all cargo is a waste of time, money, and a keybind.
13 Jun 2022, 5:19pm
Lol, a cutter will chaff

That thing is 200m long and 130m wide... Even if someone use gimballed/turreted weapon they will still hit you consistently due to sheer size.
13 Jun 2022, 5:26pm
Burstar
DingBatDave
BurstarLOL chaff. Because you def need to be concerned with gankers using gimballed weapons

The 'greased lighting' giant target that is the Cutter you're referring to can do maybe 520m/s in a straight line or easy to shoot at graceful curves. 520m/s is fast, but not as fast as the gankers who know that's your top speed and chose to pull you over anyways. It survives because of the shields, not due to its speed.



The point being its fast enough and hard enough that it can quite easily get away.
But indeed lol on the chaff gag. All that said. You don't die to anyone if you know what you are doing.



This is becoming all about Cutter. It's a good ship. If you absolutely need to arrive at your destination in open it's a strong choice. That said, the point stands: even in a cutter, derping all cargo is a waste of time, money, and a keybind.


Ok then we should switch to a ship besides the cutter in order to prove you are correct. I'll leave you to it have fun

o7
13 Jun 2022, 5:33pm
DingBatDave Ok then we should switch to a ship besides the cutter in order to prove you are correct. I'll leave you to it have fun
o7

I've already proven my point correct. Your inability to understand sound reasoning isn't my problem. I look forward to you posting video's of how derping all cargo saved your life.
13 Jun 2022, 5:45pm
Burstar
DingBatDave Ok then we should switch to a ship besides the cutter in order to prove you are correct. I'll leave you to it have fun
o7


I've already proven my point correct. Your inability to understand sound reasoning isn't my problem. I look forward to you posting video's of how derping all cargo saved your life.


im not saying anything about cargo mate. im saying a well set up cutter would get away. no need for anything else only point it away boost and go into FSD
And you have already agreed to that fact. If we are talking about dumping cargo to save your life obviously, that doesn't work. All im saying is if you use the right ship you don't need to worry too much.

Simple as that

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